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Oh? When I read the Quran (and parts of the Haddith), I never got that impression. I read a lot of "Jews and Christians are evil people and you shouldn't be friends with them" and "Kill them, behead them, blah them whenever you can." If you know where in the Quran where it advocates peace against non-believers I'd like to read those Iyats. If not, no worries. I'll probably re-read it at some point in the future and I'll pay closer attention then.

historically there were periods of peace in the middle east way back in the day. strained, but they were relatively tolerant of each other, especially in places like jerusalem and medina.


but THEN....

The most successful Islamic empire of all time (the Ottomans) were a whole lot more tolerant of Jews and Christians in their lands than the Europeans were of Jews and Muslims in their own. More relevantly, I'm pretty sure there's something in the Quran about appreciating other "People of the Book" or whatever, even if they're technically inferiors.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Was it the Ottomans or the Persians that conquered the shit out of people but then said do whatever the hell you want, just supply us some of your men and some taxes.

I ask because I was pondering it the other day while I was playing Civilization 5, and Ottomans came up.

well the mongols did that but they also took manpower and stuff.

Pretty sure it was the Ottomans. Also, I'm pretty sure nonmuslims couldn't join the army and would have a special nonmuslim tax levied against them, but it sure beats the mass executions at the hands of the christians of these times.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

i thought they had non muslim fighters, they were just fodder

There was a special tax on non-Muslims, yes. I said they were more tolerant, not that it was a giant hippie commune. I can't recall if non-Muslims were prohibited from army service, but that doesn't sound far-fetched so it's probably true, and it's not really a bad thing anyway.

The Ottomans did also conquer plenty of territory and essentially leave it alone after the fact, so long as the taxes kept coming in. The Mongols were a bit more exploitative and considerably less benign, not that the Ottoman Empire was a utopia by any means.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Ottoman were also taken down with the assistance of muslims, just as bad empires and governments in the name of christianity has been taken down with the aid of christians.

Grass often looks greener, but truth is theocracy + empire is bad news regardless of who's holding the.. reigns. ^_^

I've got a radical idea about all of this...

If you base your life on the teachings of ignorant desert shepherds from centuries or even millennia in the past, you might be an idiot and it might lead you to do stupid things. Cull from their ideas what wisdom you can, but there are far more intelligent people from the same or even earlier time periods taking much more reason-based approaches to similar or even more interesting questions that you could be learning from instead.

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face

There is no "the" Quaran, just like there is no "the" Bible. If you read it more than once, you will find many differences simply based on the biases and beliefs of the author. The proverbial "word of God" has been lost since two weeks after it was "written" and what we are left with is a bunch of assumptions and interpretations.

It's like playing Telephone, except instead of a classroom, we'll use millions of people over the course of thousands of years.

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