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What if he's wrong? What's the worst thing that could happen? The People's Liberation Army marching through San Francisco? You really think?



He didn't even have the chance. The GOP pulled it from the table as soon as he said yes. Same thing Boehner did last time - agreed to a deal then did a take-back.

The fact you think Obama should just agree to whatever, is why you don't understand and could not survive in any field related to law, politics or scholarship. You can't pursue your own ideological goals then insist everyone else is in the wrong for doing the same. Pursuing political or dialectical goals through sheer attitude...doesn't work outside the world of FOX.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

If there's nothing wrong with "pursuing ideological goals," we wouldn't have this incessant push for "compromise." My point is that "compromise" isn't really important, and that the only time there's a big to-do over "the need to compromise," it's implied, if not firmly stated, that what is really meant is that one group (republicans) need to give up things they stand for yet the other side (democrats) would be abandoning their 'principles' if they did the same. When you hear anything about "compromise" in the media, especially in the context of republican/conservative vs. democrat/liberal, it always boils down to "republicans/conservatives need to cave and do what democrats/liberals want."

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Are you serious? He had agreed to the first proposal, and they immediately changed their tune and tried to push through to "Plan B" instead. Plan B, by the way, raises taxes some pitiful amount on only those making over $1M in income, while letting Obama's tax reductions on the poor expire; yes it's a tax hike but it's really only a tax hike on those who shouldn't pay more taxes. It wouldn't be a victory in the slightest for anyone who cares about the majority of the country.

That's Obama being an obstructionist? You're really retarded sometimes. Like, really retarded.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Politics and why you don't understand it



This has absolutely no meaning in the context of American politics

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

The first republican counter-proposal includes $800 billion in new tax revenue and $1.4 trillion in savings made up of $600 billion in cuts from health programs, $300 billion savings from other mandatory programs, $200 billion from revising the consumer price index used by the government to set salaries and benefits, and $300 billion in cuts to other discretionary spending. Republicans didn't "immediately change their tune," the White House dismissed the offer, with White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer saying it “does not meet the test of balance.”

Boehner's "Plan B" was so unpalatable that, even after sweeping republicans who would object to any increases to taxes without significant spending cuts from budget (sub)committees since the election to avoid any resistance, it wouldn't pass. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that Plan B would "let Obama's tax reductions on the poor expire." Even the Washington Post notes that, with the exception of those making over $1 Million, everyone else's tax rate(s) would remain the same:



Even someone who is "retarded" should be able to get the facts right. The republicans did't pull the first offer. The White House rejected it. Plan B contained no raise in rates for anyone other than those making over $1 Million. I'll grant that the republicans pulled this offer...with the caveat that it happened only because Boehner was writing checks his ass couldn't cash, not because the republicans (as a group) were dealing in bad faith (Boehner should have known he wasn't going to be able to get this by his own guys).

If the spending cuts were going to be deeper, I'd be all for going over the fiscal cliff. Unfortunately, while fiscal year 2012 to 2013 federal tax revenue is expected to increase by 19.63% if we go over the cliff, spending outlays are only expected to decline by 0.25%. Relative to the size of the economy, the fiscal cliff changes would raise 2013 tax revenue to 18.4% GDP, above its historical average of 18.0% GDP, while reducing spending to approximately 22.4% GDP, still above the 21.0% GDP historical spending average. Regardless of how you feel about the spending cuts, it wouldn't hurt the "working poor," because some major programs, like Social Security, Medicaid, federal pay (including military pay and pensions), and veterans' benefits, were exempted from the spending cuts.

So I and my conclusions may be "retarded," but at least I'm basing my conclusions on the actual reality we live in and not whatever backwards mirror universe you're pulling your "facts" out of for the sake of this conversation.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

You're seeing what you want to see. You cling to your pathetic, ignorant ideology in an effort to pretend your walnut-sized brain is of normal volume by subscribing to the only version of reality simple enough to fit inside then posture and BS in a sad effort to pretend that you're smart enough to understand what is really going on. The fact you think that an editorial is "balanced" or biased towards the left (lol) just because it appears somewhere other than FOX is testament to how utterly brainwashed you are. You want a "balanced" editorial go read Der Spiegel. Executive summary: "Americans are dumb fuckers who prefer to be lied to because they want everything for free and can't be bothered trying to understand reality."

The right-wing editorial you linked is a fiction whose concrete facts consist entirely of quotes from self-interested GOP legislators who will say anything to keep getting subsidized by the fat cats. The only concrete fact it offers is the only one that matters. Boehner pulled the offer from the table. If an offer is being pulled, it's obviously not because one thinks the other guy isn't going to accept it. Whether one wishes to believe it's because Boehner is determined to run out the clock to protect the fat cats as long as possible (no matter the cost to his personal credibility or the good of the nation) or because he's genuinely afraid of his own party, or something in between, is subjective and irrelevant. All that matter is he pulled the same crap he did last time which was go through the motions of making a deal then show he doesn't really want one.

I'll say it again, Jubber. This is why you are a moron who wouldn't last five minutes in a courtroom, symposium or legislative chamber (and why you often express intense fear and insecurity towards people who can function in those settings). Mindless bluster and oppositionalism works on FOX...or an internet forum. It doesn't work in the real world. When it becomes clear someone isn't going engage the legal or dialectical process - which requires real critical thinking and not confusing a response with a rebuttal - they lose all credibility and effectiveness.

And when voters brainwashed by FOX vote a bunch of people inculcated on the approach they champion into office, the result is the breakdown of effective government.

Boehner will be leaving the Senate chamber feet-first one way or another. The only question is what happens when he's gone. Taxes on the rich have to rise. Even Boehner knows this. The GOP/Tea Party supporters won't accept it. Either they agree to a strategic retreat and pray they regain the initiative at some point in the future (something the fat cats can't take as a given anymore - the 2012 election made them feel a lot less secure in their ability to control the electoral process and fed into what appeared to be almost despondent attacks on the democratic system itself) or they lose their whole investment as the GOP slides into all-out civil war, a war the GOP moderates, such as they are, would probably win.

Meanwhile the Dems can divide and conquer, not as if it makes a difference for the reason that Jubber's prior statement about "what they want" is meaningless. The Dems have no idea what they want and no real long-term vision for the country (not even a bad or unrealistic one). As the author of Boondocks said, they are the world's first and only party of extremist moderates.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I think this proves the adage about thieves expecting others to steal from them. You're the very nitwit you describe in your witless little tirade, but hey, it's the holiday season and I'm feeling charitable, so while you do your little

I'm just gonna let that slide and point you to another "right wing editorial" that says:



I didn't realize Dan Pfeiffer was a republican legislator, but you may be right about him being self-interested...I mean, who isn't self-interested?

Boehner had no choice but to pull the offer. Unlike President Obama, he can't negotiate unilaterally, because he has to convince the other members of his party to vote the way he wants, which is something he still can't do even after removing representatives he knew would oppose him from key (and highly desired) committee seats. If you want to say republicans pulled the deal this time, that's fine, but the original offer, the counter-offer to President Obama's starting proposal, was rejected by the Executive...maybe if I link some more "right wing editorials" you'll finally be able to admit that. Unfortunately, despite evidence to the contrary from even your most beloved of sources, I expect you to continue to cling to the sad ideology you've been spoon fed in an effort to pretend your pea-sized brain is of at least average volume by substituting a version of reality twisted enough to fit inside your warped mind before continuing to posture and throw fits in a feeble effort to convince us to take part in the delusion that you're even remotely as clever as you'd like to think you are.

Your Pal,
Jubber

EDIT:

Yeah, so while I'm...what is it so far? A "retard with a walnut-sized brain," I believe it was. Is that right? I at least know that the following isn't going to happen:



You know, because Boehner isn't a member of the Senate. He's the motherfucking Speaker of the motherfucking House of goddamn Representatives. You should know that, you fucking retard.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

LOOK LOOK THERE'S AN EDITORIAL WITH A TON OF QUOTATION MARKS AND IT MAKES A LINK WHEN I LINK IT JUST LIKE THOSE ACADEMIC ARTICLES I CANT READ SO CLEARLY IM RIGHT BECAUSE I HAVE QUOTATION MARKS AND A URL LINK

You're a stupid America-hater and people like you will drag our country into the abyss while you laugh all the way down like the dumbfuck white trash you are.

You are trash not because you are poor and white and did time but because you do that which defines trash - bringing life down to your level, JPEGs and propaganda designed to manipulate morons like you into thinking they're getting the inside angle when a six-year-old of normal intelligence could tell you THE GUY WHO PULLED THE DEAL IS THE GUY WHO DIDNT WANT IT.

You think you're laughing at your own cleverness but in reality it is the cleverness that creates that propaganda that is laughing at you for being trashy enough to buy into the whole LEFT WING MEDIA BIAS bullshit. You people who buy into that crap are literally the dumbest fuckers in the world, and everyone who isn't like you (PWT right-wing American) knows this.

Fantasize all you want about the "moral decline of America" but the reality is that what is wrong with this country is dumb fucks like you, and if you gave half a shit about this country, you would use your brain to understand the reality that exists in between your stuffing your face and snorting crack.

No - you're just trash, you'll always be trash, and you'll never be anything but trash. A sad piece of poor white military trash who resorts to propaganda, drugs and overeating to dull the pain he feels when life forces him to think.

I'm done here.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Yo, Aestu, I'm really happy for you, and Imma let you finish, but neither one of those last two links were editorials, they were two of the finest pieces of journalism of all time!

Seriously, you sit on your high horse and lecture, yet what is your response when it's shown you're demonstrably wrong? I'd like to say "ad hominen silliness," but you kind of opened with that, which is why I turned it right back on you. No, you've finally stooped to crying like a bitch. Get a grip, bitch. It's not your fault you're dumb, and it doesn't make you a bad person.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

If you were not brainwashed you would realize that the point of that meme generator is to produce statements that are in opposition yet what you wrote is completely internally consistent.

The op-ed pieces are wrong because they are not right. No tangible facts. Just a lot of saying-so. Telling the difference is the definition of critical thinking.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I'm just letting all of you know that if I see one more meme-generated thing used in an argument you're flat out not going to be allowed to have debates on this site anymore.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Is it that time of the month again already?

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste