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People make the argument that a majority of history involves white men...that's why blacks and women need a month.

maybe they should have learned to write sooner.

Nah, I think inventing the gun would have helped them more.

Really? cuz we have plenty of written documents from pre-gun warfare all across europe and asia.



weird.

I see your point...but I think writing, while excellent for communication and record keeping...didn't determine history. Technology determines the victors, and the victors then wrote history. I'm just thinking...if the africans had guns, perhaps they wouldn't have been so convenient to take as slaves. If the native americans had guns, perhaps we wouldn't have been able to ninja their land quite so easily.

the native americans got guns from us. they weren't beaten by technology, at least not military technology.

they were beaten by smallpox and other diseases we brought.

I think that if the africans had guns, africa would've been better off. although it could just as possibly been invaded by europe on the serious.

who knows? the reason africa doesn't really have a well known history is because most of the continents have been torn apart by civil war several times over.

We traded them guns and Christianity in return for them selling us enemy tribes.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

And virtually every chance of a resource surplus they could have had after, say, the beginning of the Age of Exploration. That tends to get taken away when you're dominated by either of two opposing religions during a series of major conflicts between the peoples of said religions and the aftereffects over the next several centuries (e.g. the rise of the Ottomans, African Muslim conflict with Coptic Christianity on the continent itself, and the triangular slave trade) following the aforementioned series of conflicts.

Edit: Oh, and we didn't really trade them guns. The concept of gunpowder being used as a weapon dates back further than the beginnings of European colonization, and there's no distinctive reason for us to believe that WE traded them guns. The Muslims occupying the civilized majority of the continent were more connected to the former Silk Road than the western colonists.

I mean, we sort of traded them guns over time. Especially the goddamn British. But we didn't bring it to them in the first place, so no harm done, I suppose.

I'm pretty sure the Egyptians were building pyramids at the same time that your ancestors were learning how to make shovels, just saying.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
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Just because someone else may have traded them guns in the past doesn't make it any less of a fact that we did too. We exploited the shit out of the fact that they were tribal-based societies that seldom had good relations between villages, made the bigger ones enslave the smaller ones, and then traded for said slaves. I'm well aware that North Africa and the Ottoman Empire were equal or nearly-equal to Europe for a considerable amount of time technologically speaking, and probably a bit ahead socially speaking. My point is no less valid. We wanted slaves, and were more than willing/capable of exporting two things of nominal production value to get them. We also wanted colonies, and it helped if we could get the locals to fight each other before we rolled in with the cavalry and finished the remnants.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Pyramids didn't save them from Alexander the Great, either.

Monuments prove a great civilization, yes. Being able to fight off the barbarians make a great civilization last longer.


inb4 aestu yammers on about the fall of the roman empire due to barbarian invaders.

This is true. Han and Song China were both fantastic re-emergences of traditional (i.e. Zhou) Chinese culture. They both had a plethora of predominately independent innovations and cultural expressions, but they both fell to nomadic invaders regardless of their past inventions. The same can be said for the Western Roman Empire, although its fall was more closely tied to the separation of Byzantium from the former rather than barbarian invasions exclusively.

We could talk about how they sweatened their wine with lead and made them fall off their horses.