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 Post subject: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:05 am  
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I don't agree with the implied "this is a Judeo-Christian nation" stuff in this, but I think it's an interesting take on the morality of commerce from a religious perspective:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203806504577179303330474134.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_h

By ARYEH SPERO

Who would have expected that in a Republican primary campaign the single biggest complaint among candidates would be that the front-runner has taken capitalism too far? As if his success and achievement were evidence of something unethical and immoral? President Obama and other redistributionists must be rejoicing that their assumptions about rugged capitalism and the 1% have been given such legitimacy.

More than any other nation, the United States was founded on broad themes of morality rooted in a specific religious perspective. We call this the Judeo-Christian ethos, and within it resides a ringing endorsement of capitalism as a moral endeavor.

Regarding mankind, no theme is more salient in the Bible than the morality of personal responsibility, for it is through this that man cultivates the inner development leading to his own growth, good citizenship and happiness. The entitlement/welfare state is a paradigm that undermines that noble goal.

The Bible's proclamation that "Six days shall ye work" is its recognition that on a day-to-day basis work is the engine that brings about man's inner state of personal responsibility. Work develops the qualities of accountability and urgency, including the need for comity with others as a means for the accomplishment of tasks. With work, he becomes imbued with the knowledge that he is to be productive and that his well-being is not an entitlement. And work keeps him away from the idleness that Proverbs warns leads inevitably to actions and attitudes injurious to himself and those around him.

Yet capitalism is not content with people only being laborers and holders of jobs, indistinguishable members of the masses punching in and out of mammoth factories or functioning as service employees in government agencies. Nor is the Bible. Unlike socialism, mired as it is in the static reproduction of things already invented, capitalism is dynamic and energetic. It cheerfully fosters and encourages creativity, unspoken possibilities, and dreams of the individual. Because the Hebrew Bible sees us not simply as "workers" and members of the masses but, rather, as individuals, it heralds that characteristic which endows us with individuality: our creativity.

At the opening bell, Genesis announces: "Man is created in the image of God"—in other words, like Him, with individuality and creative intelligence. Unlike animals, the human being is not only a hunter and gatherer but a creative dreamer with the potential of unlocking all the hidden treasures implanted by God in our universe. The mechanism of capitalism, as manifest through investment and reasoned speculation, helps facilitate our partnership with God by bringing to the surface that which the Almighty embedded in nature for our eventual extraction and activation.

Capitalism makes possible entrepreneurship, which is the realization of an idea birthed in human creativity. Whereas statism demands that citizens think small and bow to a top-down conformity, capitalism, as has been practiced in the U.S., maximizes human potential. It provides a home for aspiration, referred to in the Bible as "the spirit of life."

The Bible speaks positively of payment and profit: "For why else should a man so labor but to receive reward?" Thus do laborers get paid wages for their hours of work and investors receive profit for their investment and risk.

The Bible is not a business-school manual. While it is comfortable with wealth creation and the need for speculation in economic markets, it has nothing to say about financial instruments and models such as private equity, hedge funds or other forms of monetary capitalization. What it does demand is honesty, fair weights and measures, respect for a borrower's collateral, timely payments of wages, resisting usury, and empathy for those injured by life's misfortunes and charity.

It also demands transparency and honesty regarding one's intentions. The command, "Thou shalt not place a stumbling block in front of the blind man" also means that you should not act deceitfully or obscure the truth from those whose choice depends upon the information you give them. There's nothing to indicate that Mitt Romney breached this biblical code of ethics, and his wealth and success should not be seen as automatic causes for suspicion.

No country has achieved such broad-based prosperity as has America, or invented as many useful things, or seen as many people achieve personal promise. This is not an accident. It is the direct result of centuries lived by the free-market ethos embodied in the Judeo-Christian outlook.

Furthermore, only a prosperous nation can protect itself from outside threats, for without prosperity the funds to support a robust military are unavailable. Having radically enlarged the welfare state and hoping to further expand it, President Obama is attempting to justify his cuts to our military by asserting that defense needs must give way to domestic programs.

Both history and the Bible show the way that leads. Countries that were once economic powerhouses atrophied and declined, like England after World War II, once they began adopting socialism. Even King Solomon's thriving kingdom crashed once his son decided to impose onerous taxes.

At the end of Genesis, we hear how after years of famine the people in Egypt gave all their property to the government in return for the promise of food. The architect of this plan was Joseph, son of Jacob, who had risen to become the pharaoh's top official, thus: "Joseph exchanged all the land of Egypt for pharaoh and the land became pharaoh's." The result was that Egyptians became indentured to the ruler and state, and Joseph's descendants ended up enslaved to the state.

Many on the religious left criticize capitalism because all do not end up monetarily equal—or, as Churchill quipped, "all equally miserable." But the Bible's prescription of equality means equality under the law, as in Deuteronomy's saying that "Judges and officers . . . shall judge the people with a just judgment: Do not . . . favor one over the other." Nowhere does the Bible refer to a utopian equality that is contrary to human nature and has never been achieved.

The motive of capitalism's detractors is a quest for their own power and an envy of those who have more money. But envy is a cardinal sin and something that ought not to be.

God begins the Ten Commandments with "I am the Lord your God" and concludes with "Thou shalt not envy your neighbor, not for his wife, nor his house, nor for any of his holdings." Envy is corrosive to the individual and to those societies that embrace it. Nations that throw over capitalism for socialism have made an immoral choice.

Rabbi Spero has led congregations in Ohio and New York and is president of Caucus for America.


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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:54 am  
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This is great, I don't even have to read a single word of this thread to decide that its retarded and you're an even bigger retard for creating it.


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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:13 am  
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It's pure capitalist propaganda and the very fact you take it seriously reveals your total ignorance and the fact that you are brainwashed.

Quote:
As if his success and achievement were evidence of something unethical and immoral?


This is contrary to one of the basic precepts of Judeo-Christian thought which is that equating worldly status with moral superiority is inherently sinful.
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."

It's also propaganda as the very fact that he conceals his tax returns proves he has something to hide. In before "he has the right..."

Quote:
More than any other nation, the United States was founded on broad themes of morality rooted in a specific religious perspective.


False and contrary to truth.

This country was built on greed, plain and simple. America is the only country that has never had a national church.

Quote:
Regarding mankind, no theme is more salient in the Bible than the morality of personal responsibility


False and contrary to truth.

Jews have believed in the concept of mitzvot since the beginning of time. The Talmud teaches us that the highest mitzvot is that which is undertaken anonymously, without any expectation of worldly reward. This is directly contrary to the basic precepts of American capitalism which is that what is good for oneself is good for the community.

The New Testament commands to "give onto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and give onto God that which is God's". Jesus Christ himself endorsed the payment of taxes and emphasized the triviality of material concerns in one's relationship with government.

The central theme of the Bible is mindfulness of what God asks of us. Second to that is loyalty to one's tribe. That is what the Old Testament is about - loyalty to others, to the Covenant of the Chosen People. There is no "individual responsibility" - only communal responsibility, to do what God asks of us. And he explicitly asks us to be humble and austere in this world.

Quote:
Unlike socialism, mired as it is in the static reproduction of things already invented, capitalism is dynamic and energetic


Pure propaganda.

Quote:
The Bible's proclamation that "Six days shall ye work" is its recognition that on a day-to-day basis work is the engine that brings about man's inner state of personal responsibility.


"What Would Marx Say"

Quote:
At the opening bell, Genesis announces: "Man is created in the image of God"—in other words, like Him, with individuality and creative intelligence. Unlike animals, the human being is not only a hunter and gatherer but a creative dreamer with the potential of unlocking all the hidden treasures implanted by God in our universe. The mechanism of capitalism, as manifest through investment and reasoned speculation, helps facilitate our partnership with God by bringing to the surface that which the Almighty embedded in nature for our eventual extraction and activation.

Capitalism makes possible entrepreneurship, which is the realization of an idea birthed in human creativity. Whereas statism demands that citizens think small and bow to a top-down conformity, capitalism, as has been practiced in the U.S., maximizes human potential. It provides a home for aspiration, referred to in the Bible as "the spirit of life."


This is a sacrilegious statement because the central tenet of Judeo-Christian thought is the superiority of the spiritual over the material.

Man is like God in that he is a spiritual - and not material - creature. As the Jewish saying goes, "The Light of God is the Heart of Man".

Quote:
"For why else should a man so labor but to receive reward?"


This is a quote out of context.

Quote:
1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1Co 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;

1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.


Amusingly, the editor actually changed the phrasing of the quote so it doesn't conform to any standard text, so that people couldn't Google it for the full context.

What Paul is actually saying to the Corinthians is the exact opposite of what the columnist is saying. He is saying that people should labor in this world with no expectation of material gain because they are spiritual beings and God will reward them for their humility with "all things" in the afterlife.

Quote:
The Bible is not a business-school manual. While it is comfortable with wealth creation and the need for speculation in economic markets, it has nothing to say about financial instruments and models such as private equity, hedge funds or other forms of monetary capitalization.


False and contrary to truth. The Bible is inherently and thoroughly hostile towards speculation.

Jesus Christ threw the moneychangers out of the Second Temple. The downfall of the Jewish kings was directly blamed on their greed and rapacity. Most of the protagonists of the Torah are people who gave up a materially rich life to follow spiritual callings - Moses, Abraham, Joseph.

The land of Canaan was described as "rich with milk and honey", but the Hebrews didn't seek to increase their lot or "invest" in the place - they took it by force. God approved. The point is, the Torah puts a higher value on divine purpose than "free trade".

Quote:
No country has achieved such broad-based prosperity as has America, or invented as many useful things, or seen as many people achieve personal promise. This is not an accident. It is the direct result of centuries lived by the free-market ethos embodied in the Judeo-Christian outlook.


What a small, ignorant argument.

No country had achieved such broad-based prosperity as Sumeria.
No country had achieved such broad-based prosperity as the Roman Empire.
No country had achieved such broad-based prosperity as Victorian Europe.

Quote:
Furthermore, only a prosperous nation can protect itself from outside threats, for without prosperity the funds to support a robust military are unavailable.


False, ignorant and contrary to truth.

All standing armies throughout history are supported by exploitation of subject peoples. Benjamin Franklin was critical of making the eagle our national symbol precisely: the eagle is strong because it preys upon the weak. This is why the eagle has historically been identified with military prowess.

Look at most powerful militaries throughout history. The Athenians (Delian League). The Spartans (the helots). The Romans and British (their empire). The Middle Ages - the most militarized period in history - was propped up by raiding, which was also a major cause of the Crusades.

Quote:
Having radically enlarged the welfare state and hoping to further expand it, President Obama is attempting to justify his cuts to our military by asserting that defense needs must give way to domestic programs.


The strawman argument is correct. Rome fell because of centuries of military overspending and the diminution of public service. The emphasis on the military over the civil also corroded the loyalty of the Roman populace.

All strong military powers ultimately self-destruct, either due to civil war (Rome), biting off more than they can chew (Germany), economic meltdown (Ottomans, British), or being assimilated by other cultures (Mongols). The countries with strong civil programs are the ones that endure (Byzantines, China).

Quote:
At the end of Genesis, we hear how after years of famine the people in Egypt gave all their property to the government in return for the promise of food. The architect of this plan was Joseph, son of Jacob, who had risen to become the pharaoh's top official, thus: "Joseph exchanged all the land of Egypt for pharaoh and the land became pharaoh's." The result was that Egyptians became indentured to the ruler and state, and Joseph's descendants ended up enslaved to the state.


False and contrary to truth.

It was not AFTER years of famine they gave up their "property" - it was BEFORE the years of famine that they put their crops in granaries because Joseph told the Pharaoh that seven years of prosperity would be followed by seven years of famine.

The people of Egypt and Israel were not punished for this - they were rewarded. Joseph's family suffered through the famine and came to Egypt to find food. Joseph had been treated badly by his family, but he selflessly honored his loyalty to the tribe that cast him out, and they became wealthy and important. Again, the recurring theme of the Torah - honor, loyalty, doing what God asks of us, come before material considerations.

The Egyptians did not become "indentured" - the Hebrews did. The Egyptians did just fine - it was because of Joseph's scheme their nation did not starve to death from the famine. The enslavement and subsequent Exodus of the Hebrews happened because of the petty jealousy and xenophobia of the Egyptians, who forgot the good turn the Hebrews had done them by using their covenant with God to save the country from famine.

The Torah tells us that Moses grew up well-to-do, but he left all that behind because he sympathized with a Hebrew slave being beaten by an Egyptian overlord. The point is contrary to that made by the article - that the status quo is NOT just - that sympathy, compassion for the weak and moral fortitude against seduction by material things is the path of the righteous.

When the Hebrews fled Egypt, they were fed first with matzo, and later with manna - food that fell from Heaven. They did not have to work for it; God provided it. Faith is more important than anything else in the Torah.

Quote:
Many on the religious left criticize capitalism because all do not end up monetarily equal—or, as Churchill quipped, "all equally miserable." But the Bible's prescription of equality means equality under the law, as in Deuteronomy's saying that "Judges and officers . . . shall judge the people with a just judgment: Do not . . . favor one over the other." Nowhere does the Bible refer to a utopian equality that is contrary to human nature and has never been achieved.


Sacrilegious and contrary to truth.

Jews and Christians alike believe there WILL eventually be "a new world" where justice reigns.

Jews and Christians alike believe that we must live our lives with compassion and humility as we await the coming of the Chosen One - whether Jesus or some yet-unborn man of Jewish heritage.

The entire point of the Torah is that through observance of God's law, man can overcome his base nature.

Quote:
Both history and the Bible show the way that leads. Countries that were once economic powerhouses atrophied and declined, like England after World War II, once they began adopting socialism. Even King Solomon's thriving kingdom crashed once his son decided to impose onerous taxes.


Property is theft. The Bible also condemns Sodom and Gomorrah for their greed and lack of compassion. What is evil is not the taxes, it is Solomon's greed.

Quote:
The motive of capitalism's detractors is a quest for their own power and an envy of those who have more money. But envy is a cardinal sin and something that ought not to be.

God begins the Ten Commandments with "I am the Lord your God" and concludes with "Thou shalt not envy your neighbor, not for his wife, nor his house, nor for any of his holdings." Envy is corrosive to the individual and to those societies that embrace it. Nations that throw over capitalism for socialism have made an immoral choice.


Strawman. Pride is a sin. Capitalism's detractors want a better world.

The Torah also commands that "thou shalt not take thy Lord's name in vain". This is generally interpreted as "don't lie", but what it actually means is that using the Torah to justify selfish motives is a capital sin.

TLDR version: Capitalist propaganda written for people who are ignorant and have never sat down and read the Torah, much less understand it.

Also case in point about people like Jubber who talk about 1984/Brave New World being most susceptible to the methodology described in that book...the appropriation and mutilation of spiritual iconography by political causes.

"Freedom Is Slavery" - as in 1984, rewriting the works of Shakespeare so they mean the opposite of what they originally meant.


The very fact that this guy retold two Biblical stories not only inaccurately but also in a deliberately mistruthful way (the anecdotes from Corinthians and Exodus) should be enough to prove that this is propaganda aimed at manipulating you, Jubber. But then again, you are ignorant...you are brainwashed...and you are too weak and foolish to break your own programming.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:37 am, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:23 am  
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"...it shows our constant devotion to God...it reminds each man...what God expects him to do..."

The point is - these are deeply religious people - they are typical of truly devout people in general.
They don't care about growth or efficiency - values contrary to their religious attitudes. They are first and foremost mindful of...ON THE COUNT OF THREE...

We aren't as devout as they were. And we've cast off a lot of their more...eccentric...traditions. But what we take forward with us is the notion that we must look beyond the here and now, to "what God expects of us". Even if he's not real.

Funny note, that's almost exactly what my father looks like. And how he talks. And acts.
Except my father is blind and histrionic.

Mns wrote:
This is great, I don't even have to read a single word of this thread to decide that its retarded and you're an even bigger retard for creating it.


Pretty much this. You win the thread, unfortunately.

Oh, fun fact. I actually have a Bible browser program called e-Sword. It's one of my standard software programs I install on any PC I own. Very useful.

I'm not a religious person, but I'd be a fool to fail to realize the importance and influence of the Bible in Western culture.


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Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:58 am  
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Aestu wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:17 am  
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Pretty good trolling attempt here, Jubber. I like it.

Edit: And not bad follow-up trolling Eternal.


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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:22 am  
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Eturnalshift wrote:

Aestu wrote:
Eturnalshift wrote:
anything I don't understand is unimportant


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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:41 am  
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When I think of pure capitalism, I think of this:



Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:49 am  
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Whenever I think of Alec Baldwin, I think of this:
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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:54 am  
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Azelma wrote:
When I think of pure capitalism, I think of this:



You're the dude holding the coffee. That's you. You cry and mewl when more is asked of you than your weak character can put forth.

Tough talk sounds cool because you have it easy. If it were not so easy you'd cash your welfare check, blow it on weed, and cry how it's not fair.

Also see: "Death of a Salesman"


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:55 am  
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The writing is trying to assign meaning rather than understand it. If it's just a rambling thought process it shouldn't be presented as anything but that. I think any respectable (no agenda) biblical/social/competent scholar would frame this as the beginning of a discussion or strictly as an opinion piece. This article is so brutally one-sided and takes so much shit for granted that it's obvious the writer is either an idiot or firmly entrenched with his political opinions and is willing to lie and mislead to make a point.

The article isn't from a religious perspective, it's from a single man's perspective and he is doing a phenomenal amount of ass-pulling to back up his writing with biblical 'evidence'. In the first three paragraphs he is making definitive statements on what the United States is, how it came to be and what the Bible is. Anyone taking him seriously beyond that point has already made up their mind and wants someone to agree with them or is an idiot.

Additionally he is pretending capitalism "cheerfully fosters and encourages creativity, unspoken possibilities, and dreams of the individual." What? Seriously? Unless you are working for an already powerful corporation your creativity and inventions will probably have a hard time making it to the market it if is an improvement on what other powerful entities already have. Capitalism fosters and encourages profits, unspoken atrocities and the dreams of the stock holder. Anyone who holds back the technological or cultural advancement of the human race for profit or self gain is a race traitor and should be sentenced to 20 years in Chernobyl.

I'm not pretending I know what the solution or best system is, but our current one certainly isn't it and preserving it by pretending God fully supports it is bull shit. Not only because God doesn't exist, but clinging to ancient scripture that has nearly 0 real world relevance at this point is detrimental to finding real answers.


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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:57 am  
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Drominar wrote:
The writing is trying to assign meaning rather than understand it. If it's just a rambling thought process it shouldn't be presented as anything but that. I think any respectable (no agenda) biblical/social/competent scholar would frame this as the beginning of a discussion or strictly as an opinion piece. This article is so brutally one-sided and takes so much shit for granted that it's obvious the writer is either an idiot or firmly entrenched with his political opinions and is willing to lie and mislead to make a point.

The article isn't from a religious perspective, it's from a single man's perspective and he is doing a phenomenal amount of ass-pulling to back up his writing with biblical 'evidence'. In the first three paragraphs he is making definitive statements on what the United States is, how it came to be and what the Bible is. Anyone taking him seriously beyond that point has already made up their mind and wants someone to agree with them or is an idiot.

Additionally he is pretending capitalism "cheerfully fosters and encourages creativity, unspoken possibilities, and dreams of the individual." What? Seriously? Unless you are working for an already powerful corporation your creativity and inventions will probably have a hard time making it to the market it if is an improvement on what other powerful entities already have. Capitalism fosters and encourages profits, unspoken atrocities and the dreams of the stock holder. Anyone who holds back the technological or cultural advancement of the human race for profit or self gain is a race traitor and should be sentenced to 20 years in Chernobyl.

I'm not pretending I know what the solution or best system is, but our current one certainly isn't it and preserving it by pretending God fully supports it is bull shit. Not only because God doesn't exist, but clinging to ancient scripture that has nearly 0 real world relevance at this point is detrimental to finding real answers.


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Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:11 am  
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Aestu wrote:
Azelma wrote:
When I think of pure capitalism, I think of this:



You're the dude holding the coffee. That's you. You cry and mewl when more is asked of you than your weak character can put forth.

Tough talk sounds cool because you have it easy. If it were not so easy you'd cash your welfare check, blow it on weed, and cry how it's not fair.

Also see: "Death of a Salesman"


I don't buy or smoke weed anymore. I told you this when I made the decision, but you have chosen to ignore it.

Also, Jack Lemon is the man. Also, you have no job.

Also, I don't work in sales, therefore your argument is invalid.


Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:46 am  
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Azelma wrote:
I don't buy or smoke weed anymore. I told you this when I made the decision, but you have chosen to ignore it.


Same difference. You rely on other "opiates" to get by in life. This is reflected in your thinking and general attitude towards life.

To clarify: When the guy says "the coffee", he doesn't mean literally, the caffeinated fluid. What he means is the attitude of jaded indifference and mental laziness that pervades the salesman's attitude. Whether it's drug induced or pure apathy, the net result is the same.

Azelma wrote:
Also, Jack Lemon is the man. Also, you have no job.


So don't a lot of people of merit.

Azelma wrote:
Also, I don't work in sales, therefore your argument is invalid.


Same difference. You work in an organization whose worth is entirely derivative. Whether it's sales or middle management in a purveyor of procedure, the common theme is that they owe their perceived worth to their status as a whole class of professional sycophants.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: God is a capitalist?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:50 am  
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Old Conservative Faggot
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 am
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Location: Winchester Virginia
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Dvergar wrote:
Pretty good trolling attempt here, Jubber. I like it.

Edit: And not bad follow-up trolling Eternal.


Thanks. I was going to wait until later to take credit, but I already netted the two fish I expected. I was expecting more sarcasm from Mayo, so I'm a little disappointed, but all the smug bullshit was present. Aestu served up a truly ridiculous TL;DR that went above and beyond the call of duty. His ability to refute an argument by addressing every point but the ones being made was in rare form, and I believe we're going to end up having to make the post Eternal linked its own thread and permanently sticky it. You know, you'd think someone with a "Bible browser program" installed would have just shaken their head at the article and linked one of the following:

Matthew 19:23-24

Mark 10:24-25

Luke 18:24-25

Of course, that would be assuming that person realizes that brevity is the soul of wit, and doesn't enjoy "the sound of their own voice."

Azelma wrote:
When I think of pure capitalism, I think of this:



Alex Baldwin in that scene is every good salesman I have ever met. They're all dicks...it's why they're good at sales. You have to be a bastard to sell. I had a job as a car salesman for about four months, and I was terrible at it. I was lucky if I sold a car a week. The top sales guy there was a complete bastard, and he sold 30-60 cars a month. The only time I ever saw him show a shred of concern for another person was when he gave me some advice. I had just spent the afternoon showing a guy every single model on the lot. He test drove everything. Finally, on the last test drive, he says, "I think this is the one I want." So as I try to bring him in to get the paperwork process started, he says, "I have to ask my wife first." I came in as the guy left, and the top salesman (why can't I remember his name?) asks me why he's leaving. I told him what happened, and he shook his head and said, "I hate to see you get worked like that by a customer. The next time that happens, ask the guy if he needs his wife to make all his decisions for him."

That was the advice he gave me when he was being nice.

This is the sad part of the story that proves my point: two weeks later, I get a different guy, same deal, test drives everything and starts to walk off on the "need to ask my wife" line. I was in a foul mood, and the guy had really worked my nerves the whole time, so I did exactly what the lead salesman had told me to do. I called "no-balls" on the guy. I asked him if the wife made all the decisions, and then I told him he better hurry home and not give her much time to think, or she might insist he buy one that's pink. Two hours later, he drove off the lot in the car...without talking to his wife.

Now I'm going to spend the rest of the afternoon trying to remember that guy's name....goddamnit.

Your Pal,
Jubber


AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste
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