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I hope the MMO has the same exciting and innovative combat mechanics of the other games.

To be honest, the character quests are the only reason that TOR is tolerable.

EDIT: The goofy Bethesda glitches make the games sometimes. Not the ones that actually break the game, but things like giants launching people to the moon and stuff.

RETIRED.
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Yeah I just don't see this working unless they vastly re-work the combat system. As it is now I'd definitely skip this.

PvP is a lot more fun if you play Warrior/Inquisitor.
But I play for the class quests at this point. Once I got my Operative gear I got bored with her.

I enjoyed Skyrim (despite having barely played it for a couple of hours in 2012) but i see no reason to want to play this.

It's at the point for me with MMOs where i'm going to need to see something seriously unique and interesting to consider investing in them.

This is the circlejerk in action. You can see it prominently with Fallout 3. Everyone loved it and played the shit out of it, then it became popular to hate it and now it's a shit game for no real reason.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Skyrim, like all Bethesda titles (and I've never played Skyrim but I know I'm not wrong), is creatively brilliant but buggy as hell.

MMOs are problematic and seldom undertaken because, like cameras and photocopiers, they have the effect of grossly magnifying any and all faults that a game might have. Faults, such as minor bugs in pathing or game balance, that would be tolerable were the game single-player, become game-breaking when the factors of massively multiplayer and online are introduced.

Take a game like New Vegas. Brilliantly designed and very fun. Now let's pretend it's a MMO.

Scoped laser rifle. It's a powerful weapon in close combat - high damage, high rate of fire, 100% accurate, no recoil, huge magazine. It's also arguably the best sniper weapon in the game - it's 100% accurate over extreme distances, the projectile travels instantly and is unaffected by gravity, and because of its crit mechanics, it can oneshot almost anything. You can sit on a ledge and just clear out an entire swath of the Mojave then loot the bodies whenever you happen to pass through the area.

Of course some people don't care for the laser rifle. Some people like going around pistol capping baddies. Some people like good solid rifles, or mowing things down with a heavy weapon. Even on Very Hard/Hardcore, the game is still forgiving enough for players to do so.

I'm not going to consider this balance issue from the standpoint of MMO PvP.

Instead, look at it from the perspective of PvE - imagine doing instances. If you do not use a laser rifle your performance is suboptimal. You are doing it wrong. And short of being harangued or persecuted from other players, you simply won't be able to keep up - you'll be left in the dust shooting things while they mow everything down with pewpew. And you have to compete economically against the loot-laden pewpewers.

Then the crying starts on the forums about how laser rifles are overpowered and there's no reason to use anything else and how expensive power cells are and how retardedly expensive consumables upgrades repair parts etc are for laser rifles due to supply and demand...and all the people who just really don't like zapping things with laser rifles are driven away from the game...

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The bugs. Some graphical or gameplay imperfection that affects 1% of players. There's a zillion of them in FNV. Any player is inevitably affected by some of them - quests breaking, items falling through the world, NPCs disappearing, etc. Even without the console, you can generally muddle along.

But when the game isn't just You vs. The Mojave and instead you have to work with four or nine or 24 other players towards a shared goal...all of whom may be affected by any given bug and then the whole group must stop and correct the issue...it's not just you stopping and Googling the answer, it's two dozen really pissed players sitting there with their thumbs up their asses and volunteering their two cents and wondering if you're faking it or just stupid. The result is stasis, logjam, an unplayable game. It's the Slow Fast Lane effect transposed into the world of gaming.

For this reason, bug control is a much more important issue in MMOs than single-player games. We get annoyed at bugs in WoW or any other MMO that are infintesimal compared to those that pervade contemporary or even traditional single-player games. And Bethesda is in a league of its own so far as bugs go.

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FNV, like most games, is played mostly by idiots. The game is designed, from the ground up, to be playable by idiots and people who are not idiots alike. If you are a herpdurper you can play the game on EZmode and run around spraying and hacking down everything in sight. If you are a brainless girl gamer you can get off on killing Legion who keep women barefoot, pregnant, footbound and endlessly dragging huge burdens up and down a hill. Conversely, if you're a perfectionist or completionist, like to read and follow questlines and char development etc, or if you (like me!) have a classical education and know something about California history (e.g., the very interesting facts about Hanlon's introductory monologue, then the game has something to offer.

This sort of thing, making a single epic artistic work appeal to multiple audiences, isn't new. Shakespeare did it. Euripides did it. George Lucas did it. You can see Hamlet or Lysistrata or Star Wars from the perspective of a snobby social critic or ivory tower intellectual or what have you, or you can see them as crude entertainment for (literally!) the peanut gallery guffawing at every sexual innuendo or gawking at Leia in a bikini.

In an MMO this model inevitably creates problems. Any effort to appeal to a single group must not be so intrusive that any other group is forced to expose itself to it in the course of progression. No such appeal can give any one group a competitive advantage towards the others. And of course groups of wildly different people have to coexist in a single MMO community. Just like in real life. And we see how well that works out there.

But to get the big numbers, a MMO necessarily must appeal to different types of people, hence the congealing effect and watering down of shock value. It is no coincidence that all MMOs are far more tame and banal in both content and gameplay than almost any single-player game, even classic games.

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Now what I'm getting at about Bethesda and Skyrim etc is that I just don't think their model, their style, is compatible with a MMO.

If they just don't give a shit enough to work out the bugs in a game to the point where they are acceptable for a single-player game, what makes you think that overnight they're going to learn to do it with a MMO?

How are they going to turn their multitiered epics into the necessarily shallow and streamlined MMO experience - pervert them contrary to their definition - without having jumped the shark the moment the game goes gold?

It's like Michael Jordan going into baseball.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

skyrim was a single player MMO. we've seen how well that's working with TOR, considering nobody i know who tried it even plays it or remotely talks about it, other then to try and defend that it's a single player MMO.

skyrim was an awful game, and i never touched an elder scrolls game before it. the fact that even amalur is better is really sad, and it's only better because its version of LMB mashing combat is more tolerable.

I didn't play skyrim, but I played oblivion, and oblivion can suck a dick.

there's no way skyrim is good enough to 1) make me forget how bad oblivion is and 2) think elder scrolls MMO is a good idea.

@Aestu

Just make dungeons with lots of turns and no long hallways and BOOM! Sniper Rifles lose some of their edge. Or flat nerf some it's damage or crit chance. Anything.

What I'm getting at is, I don't think that (at least 90% of the time) people are going to release a single player game as an MMO without tweaking it a lot.
As Skyrim stands now, if I could log on one day and just fight other players in some sort of arena, I would kill 99% of people. Perhaps not spell casters, depends on what kind of arena. Either way, it would be extremely broken and everyone would slowly roll to the same "Win" spec. Basically, exactly what you said about FNV.

That being said, I agree with you that bugs have a larger impact in an MMO than they do in a Single Player game.

Skyrim is neat because of the cool talent trees. That's the main thing for me. That's one of the things I loved about WoW (and now they're slowly taking player choice away and it's going to boil down to "What spec u want?! HERE NOW GTFO" <-- Preselected set of abilities with zero customization).

Morrowind was exceptionally fun all things considered (glitches were lols). I like Oblivion, and the main reason was the Arena. It was fun to step in and rise through the ranks. Sometimes go back and fight harder and harder opponents.

Bring Back Mark/Recall! Assholes.

I like when people who have never played a video game (Skyrim, in this case) but they still feel qualified to say it's "buggy as hell" and comment on it.

Have there been minor bugs? Absolutely. And of course they should work to eliminate those in the future...but to say the whole game is bad because of a few bugs is stupid.


I'd give this MMO a look probably.

For those looking for massive changes to MMO formats...I'm curious what you would like to see done differently in order to entice you to play?

Make the games single player and not require a sub. I'm done with MMOs and I think TF2 is the most multiplayer I'll ever pick up again.

Fuck paying for a whole game and a sub on top of it when I can't stand 99.9% of the people that play said game.

RETIRED.
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Bethesda games are buggy as hell. Do you disagree?



That is not what I said. I did not say the "whole game" was bad. I did not say the game was bad at all. Go back and try reading what I wrote before typing a response.



-Build the MMO as an MMO, not a single-player game played with many other people playing a single-player game. Cooperation and communication should be fundamental to the game.

-Monthly subscription to ensure that the game is run as a going concern and that everyone is on even ground.

-Devs should call the shots, not the marketing department. Shameless plugs and blatant attempts to manipulate customers are a turn-off (WoW bashing, plugs to specific groups, attempting to create an appearance of exclusivity through betas etc).

-The dev team should be 95% male, white/asian/indian. None of this diversity crap. And "diversity" should not be reflected in-game either (SC1 vs SC2). The fact that GW2 makes such blatant advances to girl gamers and has girl gamers on the dev team who seem to do nothing but spout crap designed to appeal to loser men and poser women and write narcissistic asshat profiles on the Wiki is a huge turn-off and bodes ill for the game.

-Open and sincere dialogue with the community. Devs should be prolific forum posters. And without the need for a chorus. Devs should be devs first, not CMs who lead teams of programmers (lol Greg Street). This is something F&T did well.

-Stop with the exorbitant system requirements and overkill graphics. The game environment should be high on detail and low on tech.

-The game world should be original and not disgustingly banal rehashes of real-life cultures and locales (Grizzly Hills, Victorian fetishism, etc).

-Above all else - the game should have a clear, cohesive vision. None of this "do whatever you want, whomever you may be" nonsense trying to sell games as fun for everyone from 15-year-olds with ADHD to moron girl gamers to the family dog. The game should be driven by gameplay and applied skill. If that means alienating bads, idiots and losers so be it.

-Note that none of that means that I think the game should be as outrageously hardcore as EvE and played entirely by super-nerds. I truly believe that Vanilla WoW was the correct casualization model, and efforts to further "casualize" gaming by watering it down and broadening appeal almost to the point of nihilism are self-defeating, bringing out only the most negative community elements.

I firmly believe that the the casuals will follow the hardcore into a good, well-balanced, creatively designed game. Five years ago, I heard about the "donut" analogy and thought it was demented, self-serving tripe. WotLK, Cata, Activision and the experience of dealing with legions of girl gamers, the worthless children of divorced parents, poor white trash and other morons has managed to completely change my mind on the topic.

A casual game is a hardcore game, and vice versa.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Pretty much agree with all of this.

I'd like to add that I feel that they should discourage sites like WoWhead. Sites that just give you the answers. Here's the best spec. Here's the best stats/items and the order to get them. All that is work that the player should have to do. Quest is vague and non-specific and there's no in-game quest helper already? Ask in general chat or other players. Chances are, if all players have a hard time with something and have to actually ask other players for help (read: Socialize in a multiplayer game) then they'll be that much more likely to help in the future. As opposed to the current "lol wowhead it noob".

I'd also like to see more talent/customization choices instead of less. Oh, picking an extra 1% crit or 1% hit or 1% damage? I like that. Maybe I want to hit harder OR maybe I want to hit twice as hard more often OR maybe I just want to hit more in general. Now, I'm not saying go back to 5 point talents, 3 is a good number. I'd just like the ability to make those choices. Sure, they won't matter much in the long run but at least I got to make them. Find a way to give me lots of talent options without 1% fillers? Even better.

Maybe balance the game around 1v1 (with some exceptions). I feel like if dps is better balance around 1v1, then it can be easier to balance 2v2 and 3v3, etc. Could be wrong but eh. I have a more detailed post about this if requested.

More skill based and less gear based. Possibly gear providing even smaller upgrades. Think cata using TBC or Wrath gear maybe.

Bored of this rant. Paitently awaiting "UR DUM".



Edit: Forgot, I'd like to see FFA PvP on a larger scale then just a small arena in the jungle. As well as smaller battlegroups if any at all or at least the ability to sit in a longer queue to fight people from just your server (much like the experience off queues except hopefully not as long)