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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:30 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Mns wrote:
Azelma wrote:
Mayo rages about conservatives and in general tells them to STFU and take their medicine. He thinks Mitt Romney is the antichrist. Meanwhile, he can't acknowledge that Obama might be a piece of shit...merely considers Obama's administration stealing liberties as part for the course.

I have nothing constructive to add to the conversation and no ability to respond to what you've said so I will call you an idiot.


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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:35 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Jubbergun wrote:
Azelma, unless this article has some glaring lies of omission, every president from Gerald Ford to George H. W. Bush managed to avoid any of these types of scandals, probably in part due to laws passed in the wake of Nixon's abuse of the organization. That means that while there's a long and storied history of abusing the IRS for political purposes, you can't legitimately say every president engaged in that type of abuse.


True. Just because these presidents didn't all use the IRS to abuse their opponents doesn't mean they weren't corrupt in different ways.

Corruption isn't limited to the IRS. Obama's administration is bringing back the Nixon days no doubt...but IRS corruption isn't the only corruption Presidents can engage in.



Also, I take exception to you calling me a please everyone optimist. I think I piss most people off when I hate on both sides (consider Mayo, even though I probably align with many of his beliefs...at least socially...I'm just a "literal idiot").

And I'm a pessimist because I see deep flaws on both sides of the aisle, and truthfully don't think there's any hope of it getting better.

I still don't understand how saying "you're both wrong" amounts to a please everyone philosophy (or a lack of an opinion).


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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:43 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Azelma actually isn't that far from me in terms of our "fuck both sides of the aisle" attitude.

He's just more polite.


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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:25 pm  
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French Faggot
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"Please refute non-facts from my biased source."

-Jubbergun

Once again, post the IRS statute or shut the fuck up.


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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:14 pm  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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These should probably be relevant, and reflect the information 'alleged' in my 'biased' sources (never mind that every paper in the country has acknowledged basically the same information--except those like Slate who are purposely muddying the difference between the 501 (c) types so they can make the "Bush did it, too" argument), so long as I didn't mangle the difference between 501 (c)(3) and 501 (c)(4) and put one where I should have put the other.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopici03.pdf

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdf

The wiki article is probably a little simpler and easier to understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)_organization

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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:46 am  
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French Faggot
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So we're pissed off that the IRS did something it's legally permitted to do by statute? Gotcha.

Next.


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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 3:33 am  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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Actually, "we" are pissed about the things they did that are not allowed by statute. The IRS is allowed, even obligated, to release information for FOIA requests for organizations that have already have their tax-exempt status approved, but they're not supposed to release the information of groups that have not yet been approved, as they did with the application for the Crossroads group and others that were released to ProPublica. It has been suggested that some of the questionable inquiries on the questionnaires were asked for the purpose of providing that information to individuals outside the IRS for political purposes because of a different scandal in which the National Organization for Marriage claims that information leaked to the Human Rights Campaign could only have come from confidential information they provided to the IRS.

"We" are also pissed about the impropriety of treating groups differently based on their political leaning/affiliation. Some of the follow-up questionnaires sent to "tea party" groups asked about the party affiliation of the group and/or its members, affiliation with other groups, and/or the relationship with particular activists or candidates. While some of the questions were or could be seen as legitimately necessary for the approval process, some of the questions, the ones about party affiliation in particular, were questionable at the very least and should not have had any bearing on the group's request.

"We" are pissed that these groups were singled out and put through a lengthy approval process while groups of an opposing political view had their applications approved with less time and effort. Is it against the statute for the IRS to choose to put a group through a more thorough screening? No, but the impropriety of determining a group should receive extra scrutiny based on it's political leanings should be obvious to a law student.

"We" are also pissed that it possible that someone at the IRS was leaking confidential information for political purposes. It's very likely in light of all that's been revealed this week that the source of Harry Reid's comments regarding Mitt Romney's taxes during the election was someone in the IRS who shouldn't have been sharing that confidential information.

What "we" aren't pissed off about the alleged scandal involving the Justice Department subpoena of AP phone records. For once, one of Attorney General Holder's non-answers is pretty legit. Tasked with finding out who leaked sensitive information to the AP in violation of the law, AG Holder removed himself from the investigation because he could have possibly been the leaker. The deputy he charged with the investigation got a court order to pull the AP records without telling the AP because he didn't want to alert anyone who may have been involved. According to what I've read, it's customary to inform a news organization of this sort of record search, but if a court approved the request based on the stated reasoning, the deputy did his due diligence, and responsibility for the decision rests with the judge that signed the order, not anyone in the Justice Department. This is a non-scandal, but it's going to be treated like Watergate--probably even more so than the IRS debacle--because the press is going to be huffy. The journalism community has the attitude that so long as you can say "journalism" it excuses you and puts you above scrutiny, and they expect special treatment because of that attitude, which is usually indulged.

"We" also didn't like Speaker Boehner's comments today about "who's going to jail over this." It's inappropriate for someone in his position to make a comment that doesn't respect the principle of "innocent until proven guilty," even if he's directing it at a nebulous "someone" and not at a specific person. It's also the place of the judiciary, not the legislature, to decide matters of criminal guilt/innocence and the appropriate sentences for the guilty.

In short, Tuhl, even if everything done by IRS employees in this situation was legal (and it wasn't), there are still serious ethical questions that need to be addressed. Someone, or several someones, exercised very poor judgment where these applications were concerned. The person or persons responsible for this should be determined and dealt with appropriately. I don't think that's unreasonable.

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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:43 am  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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More good news...the IRS official who led the tax-exempt organizations unit when Tea Party groups were targeted (Sarah Hall Ingram) is now in charge of the IRS office responsible for overseeing the provisions of the Affordable Care Act.

I'm sure that power isn't going to be abused in any way. Just trust the government, man, don't listen to those voices that tell you tyranny is right around the corner--BECAUSE THEY'RE WEEKS BEHIND, IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.

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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:10 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:18 pm
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Tyranny isn't around the corner Jubbs. Just ask a Native American, or an Asian internment camper during ww2, or the Tuskegee men, or a slave, or....


well damn.


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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:45 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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In other news, Lois Lerner pleaded the fifth over the IRS scandal.

That means she can't possibly be guilty of anything, right?


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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:18 pm  
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French Faggot
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Your country usually embraces a presumption of innocence.


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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:33 pm  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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Yeah, I'm with Tuhl...the whole point of the fifth is that you don't have to talk, but unfortunately Elijah Cummings (of all the people) pointed out that by making her opening statement she had effectively waived her Fifth Amendment right.

I really don't like all the "she pleads the fifth so she must be guilty" shit going on this afternoon. She didn't go about it the right way, but if you assume she's guilty you'd have to make the same assumption about anyone else who exercises that right. Unfortunately not talking is usually the smartest thing you can do regardless of how guilty you are(n't), just look at Scooter Libby or anyone else who gets charged on some technicality just so prosecutor can look like they're doing their job. If they're out to fry your ass you shouldn't give them the flint to light the fire, especially if you've done nothing wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:58 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Oh don't get me wrong, I totally accept and understand the need for the fifth. I just don't believe the amendment has anything to do with innocence or guilt. You deserve the right to not incriminate yourself. I respect that right. But if someone is accused of doing something dirty, and then is not answering questions about it, it doesn't push me towards believing their innocence.


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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:27 pm  
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MegaFaggot 5000
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Usdk wrote:
But if someone is accused of doing something dirty, and then is not answering questions about it, it doesn't push me towards believing their innocence.


If I accuse you of RAPING AND KILLING A GIRL IN 1990 and you refuse to talk about RAPING AND KILLING A GIRL IN 1990, you're not pushing me towards believing that you didn't RAPE AND KILL A GIRL IN 1990.


RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
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 Post subject: Re: LOLITICS
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:32 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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I was 6. I didn't start raping people until I was 14.

Your witness.


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