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I Has a Bucket: Preventing bucket theft on Bleeding Hollow | FUBU: A better BH Forum
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:52 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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Muerte wrote:
Baneleaf wrote:
Maybe Achilles should have brow beat a GM and called him incompetent until he got his loot.


Menelaus was the one who got his loot stolen

does anyone fucking read anymore


Ah you are correct sir. I read the story a LONG time ago.


9 level 90s and 10 85s, Damn I need another hobby.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:53 pm  
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Kunckleheaded Knob
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Muerte wrote:

does anyone google search anymore

Fix't
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:53 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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Muerte wrote:
Baneleaf wrote:
Maybe Achilles should have brow beat a GM and called him incompetent until he got his loot.


Menelaus was the one who got his loot stolen

does anyone fucking read anymore


gogo classical mythology class!!!!!!!!!



My favorite situations are when i come across someone of the other faction and we are both on the same quest. Or I just see someone trying to do an elite that I know I could easily handle.

/target npc
/point npc
/target player
/question player

= gogo helping someone kill an elite!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:54 pm  
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Tasty Tourist
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minored in classical literature HENQ

fuckyouverymuch

bane i'm sorry for yelling <3


I don't like Mayonnaise. I think he's a complete asshole and the worst possible moderator for these forums. I'm allowed to say this because nothing is censored here.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:55 pm  
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Kunckleheaded Knob
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Muerte wrote:
minored in classical literature HENQ

fuckyouverymuch

bane i'm sorry for yelling <3


How is your bed time story reading?
I have had trouble falling asleep lately
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:57 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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Henq wrote:
Baneleaf wrote:
My toughts on this whole matter can be summed up in about 30 minutes of play last night.

I was fying to a quest in dragonblight and laned to mine a node. An ally druid ( I was on my horde DK) landed on top of me and started to mine it and targeted me. I took this as agression and proceeded to thump the hell out of the druid. Thne while doing my quest I saw an alliance pally trying to solo the elite bird in the Green Dragonsire. I decided to help the pally and he was smart enough to realize his AOE would damage the person that was helping him so he just used judgement and shield while I killed the thing. Then on another quest I had an elite mob to 20% and a horde mage and priest came into the area on the quest so I told them to invite me before I killed it so they could get the quest loot. They told me they rarely saw that behavior anymore and the 80 mage said if I needed any help whatsoever in the area to let him know.

This is how you play the game. Act like and adult, pvp when its fair game, and treat people with respect and you will recieve the same in return. The alliance pally I helped spammed the /thank emote several times to make sure I knew he appreciated the help. The druid got his ass kicked in open world pvp, and the mage and priest made sure they offered to return the favor.


This is why I love you in the guild :)
I have found myself in numerous situations like that.

We have been out "dungeoneering" (as skrob has termed it) several times and come across some 80's picking on horde alts and decided to help out and then make sure the guy was situated again before continuing on.

Altruism is a positive quality


Oh but be warned I have been known to go nuclear and kill everyting in site, but this ONLY in retaliation. I prefer to help whenever I can but sometimes a mofo gotta learn the hard way, lol.


9 level 90s and 10 85s, Damn I need another hobby.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:40 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Muerte wrote:
you compare wow to the iliad, then you say that wow is best viewed in the context of 'agonstic' societies in history. assuming you meant agnostic, you've undercut your own argument. the iliad is at its heart a gnostic text.

Menelaus was the one who got his loot stolen


No, I meant exactly what I typed, "agonist". Look it up.

We don't know if Helen was loot because the part of the story that tells how Menelaus won her has been lost to time. We do know that Achilles was upset about loot distribution; that's what the story is about.

Muerte wrote:
Maybe Achilles should have brow beat a GM and called him incompetent until he got his loot.


He did.

King Agamemnon said, "You speak truthfully, old man. But this man is desirous to be above all other men; he wishes to lord over all, and to talk down to all; with which I think some one will not comply. But if the ever-existing gods have made him a warrior, do they therefore give him the right to utter insults?"

But him noble Achilles interruptingly answered: "Yea, I would be called a worthless coward, if I yielded to you in everything, whatever you say. Do these things to other men; don't dictate to me, for I shall no longer obey you. But another thing will I tell you - keep it in mind: I will not contend with my hands, nor you or anyone else, on account of this maid, since you, the givers of loot, take her away. But of the other effects which I have at my swift black ship you shall not remove one, I being unwilling. But if you try, know this: your black blood will quickly flow around my lance."

And so the prize was removed from Achilles' possession...

Achilles, weeping, sat down apart from his companions, upon the shore of the sea, and he sought his dear mother, stretching forth his hands: "O mother, high-thundering Olympian Zeus has promised me honor; but now he has not honored me eat all; for the son of Atreus, wide-ruling Agamemnon, has dishonored me; taking away my prize, and now possesses it, himself having wrested it from me."


Muerte wrote:
also broseph, hate to break it to you, but you're Ajax


ahahahahaha 10/10

Henq wrote:
I do appreciate Aestu's method of weeding out unqualified people from his raids, it has proven productive in the past and I am sure it continues to do so.

I take the opposite approach and try to help and teach those that do not understand what mistakes they are making. Granted, I have been accused of hand holding before, which is not great and something I am consciously making an effort to reduce both in my pug raids and my guild raids. I do think that my method allows for a bit more social interaction and friendly relationships than other approaches.

Altruism is a positive quality


No, I do that a lot - I often try to show people how to play better. However I regard raiding as literally endgame, and expect players to have gained the basic skills they need in fivemans and entry level raids that I generally do not pug. I don't mind lack of skill or gear, but what I really go out of my way to belittle and punish is laziness and stupidity.

I do believe in being kind and helpful to random people, but I don't see that as true altruism - as I see it, being human, that which you are is also everyone else; therefore, if you do good, it logically follows that others have that same tendency. Besides, I have a high ideal for human behavior; in striving towards that ideal, it logically follows that I should not have to lie or cheat or be destructive to get what I want; a great person should be able to accomplish his goals by making a better world. Greatness is as greatness does.

I see altruism as self-defeating because that to simply help others for no return discourages people from making efforts for themselves. But then being a better person means you should give others the chance to rise to their proper level as doing so will ultimately benefit everyone.

I used to enjoy randoms and still like to teach people things, but I find a disproportionate portion of the newer and less experienced WoW players are only interested in loot and prestige and are too immature to learn and don't even like making an effort, which is incomprehensible to me as that basically means they play a game they hate playing. By and large I avoid LFD. It's very frustrating.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:51 pm  
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Tasty Tourist
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Quote:
No, I meant exactly what I typed, "agonist". Look it up.


Code:
An agonist is a chemical that binds to a receptor of a cell and triggers a response by that cell. Agonists often mimic the action of a naturally occurring substance.


No..that doesn't makes sense, hmm..keep looking

Code:
Agonist is a classification used to describe a muscle that causes specific movement or possibly several movements to occur through the process of its own contraction. This is typically a term designated for skeletal muscles


erp...no...hmm...

Code:
The Agonist is a Canadian metalcore/melodic death metal band from Montreal, Quebec


fuck that...moose humpers.....


Code:
Agonism is a political theory which emphasises the potentially positive aspects of certain (but not all) forms of political conflict. It accepts a permanent place for such conflict, but seeks to show how we might accept and channel this positively.


Ohhhhhh...I stand corrected sir. Apologies!


I don't like Mayonnaise. I think he's a complete asshole and the worst possible moderator for these forums. I'm allowed to say this because nothing is censored here.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:20 pm  
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Twittering Twat
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imnotpopular /cry
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:21 pm  
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Tasty Tourist
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Zaryi wrote:

Hector > Corus, sry


ya true

I barely read any of this thread but henq's post reminded me of the tourny we had in the dire maul arena a billion years ago. I think i have ss's somewhere of it.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:08 pm  
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Pinheaded Pissant
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agonist is the opposite of a more commonly used word, antagonist.


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Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:09 pm  
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Tasty Tourist
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i fucking learned something today


I don't like Mayonnaise. I think he's a complete asshole and the worst possible moderator for these forums. I'm allowed to say this because nothing is censored here.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:15 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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dek wrote:
agonist is the opposite of a more commonly used word, antagonist.


The opposite of "antagonist" is "protagonist". Both are nouns and "agonist" as it is used here is an adjective meaning something else entirely.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:19 pm  
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Tasty Tourist
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I DONT KNOW WHO TO BELIEVE ANYMORE

citation needed


I don't like Mayonnaise. I think he's a complete asshole and the worst possible moderator for these forums. I'm allowed to say this because nothing is censored here.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:20 pm  
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Kunckleheaded Knob
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Unless readily accessible new instances give even better loot than this, many players would completely ignore them. Raid instances along the way in leveling simply aren't viable, as raids cut experience by half. Further, the only reason guilds can get 40 players to go do Molten Core is because there are many, many 60s in the game, at least when compared to the number of players at exactly, say, level 37. The only sensible thing that I see to do with instances like Zul'Gurub, 20-man Ahn'Qiraj, and Molten Core is to heavily nerf the mobs to make the instances 5-man, raise their levels so that the loot the instance drops is suitable for the level without changing items, reduce drop rates, and remove the raid lockout. That would at least get some utility out of the instances, rather than Blizzard having spent all that time designing instances that even raiders who happen to pick up the game after the expansion can never see. Furthermore, the 40-man component is hardly the only problem with raids in their present formulation. If they were to make the end-game instances 5-man, but keep all the other problems, would that make for a fun instance? Raid lockouts, exotic resistance requirements, prescheduling, regrouping on multiple days, pigeonholed class functions, forced respecs, reputation grinds, DKP, guild drama, and killing the same mobs in the same orders using the same tactics week after week after week in a 5-man instance? No thanks. If that's what it takes, the mobs can keep their epics for all I care. If the problem with the existing raiding end-game is that it's a boring time sink, then what is gained by offering the alternative of another boring time sink? Should a 60 with 100 days /played who still has trouble with Ragefire Chasm get epics just because he's a 60 with 100 days /played? If you got a thousand characters to level 5, would you expect epics for that? Emphasizing time spent over skill leads to mind-numbingly repetitive content, which is exactly what should be avoided. Surely it is better to spend that time creating real content even if it means only one boring end game path instead of several. Perhaps for whatever the final expansion Blizzard has planned, it would make sense to have multiple end-game paths, so that players could advance to the very best gear via 40-man raids, 5-man groups, solo content, or whatever mix they prefer. But in the until then, it doesn't make sense to overdo the end-game content which will need a major overhaul later, instead of real content which will remain useful for as long as the game exists, and without needing to be completely rebalanced. Another alternative would be to have no end-game at all. Put no raid instances or reputation grinds into the game, so that once you finish Stratholme, Scholomance, Dire Maul, Blackrock Depths, and Blackrock Spire, you're done. There's nothing left to do. That would be like Blizzard telling players, congratulations, you have beaten the game. Now you should cancel your account and go do something else. For obvious business reasons, they can't do that. Let's not forget that Blizzard is playing a game too, here. They're trying to make as much money as they possibly can. This isn't an anti-capitalist rant; that's a good thing, not a bad thing. If Blizzard didn't care about money, they wouldn't care what players want, and certainly wouldn't adjust the game based on player demands. If you don't see the difference between this and what they do now, I suggest you go apply for some permit at a government agency sometime. It doesn't matter much which agency, so long as it isn't dependent on customer satisfaction for its budget. Indeed, Blizzard trying to make money is the reason they made the popular level 1-59 section of the game the way they did. Blizzards great insight was that, even if it was necessary for the game to be painful grinding once the content had run out, many players didnt want the painful grinding stage to begin somewhere around level 3. So they postponed it all the way until players had done nearly everything there was to do, and players loved it. That is a big reason why the game has six million or so subscribers, and the company has (hopefully) made millions of dollars in profit. But players see that the grinding can be postponed, and want it postponed further, or put off indefinitely. A company that found a way to do that in a stereotypical MMORPG with heavily scripted content would make oodles of money off it. But trying that is perhaps a holy grail type of mission, and one for which neither Blizzard nor anyone else on the planet has a solution. However, Blizzard knew that they could only add so much real content to the game, without making a bunch of ill-conceived garbage. The problem they faced was how to get players to keep subscribing after they have run out of content, or more commonly, skipped most of it. Their solution was the current raiding end-game. Look carefully, and you'll notice that that is exactly thinking of pvp, it would make much of the pve content horrendously difficult. And that would give players yet another topic on which to whine. What other reasons are there to get epics, apart from pvp and pve uses? Ego, perhaps? While I tend to pity those who make a huge deal about either leveling or getting some particular drop, as though it were some great accomplishment, this doesn't make much sense, either. Suppose that Blizzard were to add a new legendary set for each class which was undeniably the best gear in the game. All that players have to do to get it is upon reaching level 60 is to complete a trivial quest line which basically consists of the quest giver repeatedly asking the player if he is certain that he wants the set. There's one big catch, though: once you get the legendary set, you can never again enter an instance. No battlegrounds, no raid zones, no group zones, no solo farming instances, even. That is, you can get the set, but can't use it much. Interested? If the players who want gear want it for something other than pvp or pve use, then surely this would be quite a popular set, don't you think? I can sympathize with non-raiders who want more non-raiding content added to the game. What I can't sympathize with is the people who use exploits to trivialize (and hence essentially skip) the existing content, and then complain that they've run out of things to do. You've seen what I'm talking about: take a 40 into Deadmines and a 60 into Scarlet Monastery. Such people would take an 80 into Scholomance if they could, but they can't, so instead, they take 10 players into a 5-man zone. And now that exploit is being cut off as well in patch 1.10, and they're screaming about it. Amusing. It's not hard to find the problems with the people you don't like, and raiders have jumped on this to point out how ridiculous it is. They're right, of course. Where they go wrong is in claiming that non-raiders asked for epics for hard non-raiding content and are now complaining about it. The non-raiders who are complaining about the changes of patch 1.10 are not the same people who wanted actual challenges in non-raiding content, such as having to pay attention. So let it be known, I'm not a raider and I don't want easy epics. What I want is to be able to attack one challenge until I get tired of farming it (and I have very little tolerance for grinding of any sort), and then, as a result of having completed the previous challenge (and the ones before it), to be properly equipped for the next. Whether the gear involved is green, blue, purple, or orange doesn't matter much. And I do want the challenges to be, well, challenging, as opposed to monotonous time sinks. I routinely turn players away from groups I form for being too high level. A 56 wants to run Maraudon, or a 38 Razorfen Kraul? Not with me, they won't. Five man caps on five man instances are great. I wish Blizzard would fix the overleveled exploit and not let players more than 10 levels apart enter the same instance together, too. Finally, I want for there to be a next challenge. Even if it's called an expansion. The game doesnt need more time sinks. It needs more real content. Lets let Blizzard create that without getting all antsy in the meantime about not being able to find a boring time sink that isnt, well, a boring time sink.


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