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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:37 pm  
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Blathering Buffoon
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it will be beneficial in the long run to occupy those 3 holes in the desert.


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:46 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Isn't it funny how Obama is shit-talking the Republicans on unemployment extensions even though his 'victory' was extending benefits up to two years? Here's an idea, Mr. President. Create jobs and you don't have to have unemployment. (Of course, Democrats want us to be dependent upon the government so I get why they're in no hurry to create jobs.)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:54 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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Eturnalshift wrote:
Isn't it funny how Obama is shit-talking the Republicans on unemployment extensions even though his 'victory' was extending benefits up to two years? Here's an idea, Mr. President. Create jobs and you don't have to have unemployment. (Of course, Democrats want us to be dependent upon the government so I get why they're in no hurry to create jobs.)


How do you propose the government create 11 million jobs fast enough that nobody reaches the 99 week EI limit?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:55 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Quote:
Quick Summary of 2009 Progressive Victories (more explanation below)
Three major health bills (SCHIP, tobacco regulation, and stimulus funds for Medicaid, COBRA subsidies, health information technology and the National Institutes of Health) enacted even before comprehensive reform
Stimulus contained myriad other individual policy victories, not only preventing a far worse depression but also:


hah.

Quote:
Delivered key new funds for education


vague.

Quote:
Expanded state energy conservation programs and new transit programs


at what cost? to whom?

Quote:
Added new smart grid investments


while still not addressing security. you have no idea how easy it is to wreak havoc in a smart grid electric/gas/water delivery system.

Quote:
Funded high-speed Internet broadband programs


been done since the 90's.

Quote:
Extended unemployment insurance for up to 99 weeks for the unemployed and modernizing state UI programs to cover more of the unemployed


At little to no cost to the federal government, but draining every state dry.

Quote:
Made large new investments in the safety net, from food stamps (SNAP) to affordable housing to child care


A bigger net catches more fish.

Quote:
Clean cars victory to take gas mileage requirements to 35mpg


woo! welcome to what should've come out of the 70's "crisis".

Quote:
Protection of 2 million acres of land against oil and gas drilling and other development


That's because they're being used as reserves. When the US no longer has the ability to import oil, it will tap itself. That has been the plan all along. Drain the world, keep what's left.

Quote:
Executive orders protecting labor rights, from project labor agreements to protecting rights of contractor employees on federal jobs


Contractor employees on federal jobs. K, so people working a short span for the government. Gotcha.

Quote:
Stopping pay discrimination through Lilly Ledbetter and Equal Pay laws


fine.

Quote:
Making it easier for airline and railway workers to unionize, while appointing NLRB and other labor officials who will strengthen freedom to form unions


I'm all for protecting workers, but the union thing is to kill off air carriers and railway. Nationalization.

Quote:
Reversing Bush ban on funding overseas family planning clinics


Funding abortion clinics overseas? What, funding local ones wasn't enough? Touchy subject, but the wholesale slaughter of children shouldn't be an "accomplishment"

Quote:
Passing hate crimes protections for gays and lesbians


Status quo is status quo

Quote:
Protecting stem cell research research


touchy subject.

Quote:
Financial reforms to protect homeowners and credit card holders


that bandaid isn't going to fix the hemorrhaging.

Quote:
Bailing out the auto industry and protecting unionized retirees and workers


a domino effect of bailouts... nationalization. consolidation.

Quote:
You may not think these are good accomplishments, but they aren't "nothing".


Yeah, they're something, alright.


Obama-nation... it will cause desolation.


If you still think you had a say in any politics since 1998, you're mistaken.



ps:

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2010/07/serious-tracking-of-americans-begins.html

o hey dere...


Image


Last edited by Tehra on Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:00 pm  
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Blathering Buffoon
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:52 pm
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"Congratulations on winning the election Mr. President. Here is the key to the Oval Office and your Create-A-Job Wand."


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:06 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Laelia wrote:
How do you propose the government create 11 million jobs fast enough that nobody reaches the 99 week EI limit?
I'm guessing raising taxes, enacting overbearing regulation, expanding government and not handling illegal immigration isn't doing the trick... so, maybe he should do the opposite? Send the illegals home and you'll probably get a couple million right there.

PS: How many of the things on that list were passed with actual debate and transparency? I have a hard time thinking of his landmark victories because: 1) The legislation is probably thousands of pages long to remember everything or 2) There was never a public debate or there was a lot of closed-door deal making to buy votes.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:20 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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Eturnalshift wrote:
Laelia wrote:
How do you propose the government create 11 million jobs fast enough that nobody reaches the 99 week EI limit?
I'm guessing raising taxes, enacting overbearing regulation, expanding government and not handling illegal immigration isn't doing the trick... so, maybe he should do the opposite? Send the illegals home and you'll probably get a couple million right there.


How do you suggest he find and deport 12 million people spread out across the US, who will not want to be found? Sounds like a massive expansion of government would be required. As for reducing taxes (further than the $275 billion in cuts in the stimulus bill, which I'm sure you were already aware of), weren't you worried about the deficit before? How can you reduce the deficit when you're cutting revenues?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:47 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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We've been over ideas on how to combat illegal immigration; not a big deal for Canadians... big deal for Americans. Yea. Instead of this administration even starting to take a step in taking care of the immigration problems they posture behind the hope of reform while perusing individual states that decide to enforce a federal law because the federal government refuses to do so. Clearly, the President isn't looking out for the best interests of his legal citizens... instead, playing which card will buy him the latino votes.

When you lower taxes you get less revenue however you spur more economic growth, which in turn creates more money through the classes providing the government a long-living, stronger source of wealth through moderate taxation. Lemme ask you this then: How can the government continually expand their reach without having a non-government entity to tax? The government lives through our taxes yet when their policies expand their presence while destroying industry, driving away business and ultimately destroying the economy... how will they survive? They're biting the hand that feeds... and they're ok with that because they're looking out for the little man, right? News flash: All classes in America are feeling this recession and Obama hasn't done a single thing to truly help.

And yes - I was worried about the deficit before... I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'm guessing Obama is coming close to Bush's 8-year deficit in 1 1/2 years.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:52 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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Eturnalshift wrote:
We've been over ideas on how to combat illegal immigration; not a big deal for Canadians... big deal for Americans. Yea. Instead of this administration even starting to take a step in taking care of the immigration problems they posture behind the hope of reform while perusing individual states that decide to enforce a federal law because the federal government refuses to do so. Clearly, the President isn't looking out for the best interests of his legal citizens... instead, playing which card will buy him the latino votes.

When you lower taxes you get less revenue however you spur more economic growth, which in turn creates more money through the classes providing the government a long-living, stronger source of wealth through moderate taxation. Lemme ask you this then: How can the government continually expand their reach without having a non-government entity to tax? The government lives through our taxes yet when their policies expand their presence while destroying industry, driving away business and ultimately destroying the economy... how will they survive? They're biting the hand that feeds... and they're ok with that because they're looking out for the little man, right? News flash: All classes in America are feeling this recession and Obama hasn't done a single thing to truly help.

And yes - I was worried about the deficit before... I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'm guessing Obama is coming close to Bush's 8-year deficit in 1 1/2 years.


So a massive expansion of the government is fine as long it's to get rid of people who entered the country illegally, but it's not OK for providing education, health care, social services, building roads, etc? What is the role of government in your world? As for tax cuts paying for themselves, I don't think even the most deluded economists believe that anymore. Tax cuts do have a stimulative effect, but you still end up with lower government revenues than before the cuts. Lower revenue = higher deficit or lower spending, but cutting government spending is the opposite of how one creates jobs. So where's this magic wand Obama can wave to rapidly create millions of jobs without increasing the deficit?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:15 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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What massive expansion of government am I talking about in terms of illegal immigration? Why not use the resources we already have? Deploy the national guard to the borders. Put up a bid contract for securing the borders (North and South), have law enforcement check the citizenship status of individuals (all individuals if it'll shut the fucking ACLU up). Hell, offer up a bounty for known illegals, heavily fine those who are caught employing illegals, make it illegal for them to use public services - school, health care, law enforcement, etc. Just make it outright miserable for them to be here and I'm sure they'll go somewhere else. Fuck it. You guys can have 'em all. They're a drain on our budgets and it's not like they bring rainbows and unicorns wherever they go - more like higher crime and lower property values.

State governments should provide education. State governments should provide social services unless they're services earned through service to the government. A 100% over-haul of the health care system to benefit less than 10% of Americans is something I do not support. (Health care costs aren't dropping, either...) I support the Federal government for infrastructure for transportation. The role of government in my world is to protect our borders, destroy our enemies, maintain infrastructure and to let me do whatever the fuck I want to do without getting up my ass about it. In my perfect world, the government would be extremely small and very limited.

As far as the magic wand - why don't you ask the Administration or all the Obama fans who put that moron in office. He's the one that said unemployment wouldn't break 8% if we used his stimulus package. His administration also said the jobs that were lost may never come back. He's the one who thinks his policies have actually helped America.

He's a terrible president and his policies aren't much better.

I do enjoy being able to say, "I told you so."
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:47 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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Eturnalshift wrote:
What massive expansion of government am I talking about in terms of illegal immigration? Why not use the resources we already have? Deploy the national guard to the borders. Put up a bid contract for securing the borders (North and South), have law enforcement check the citizenship status of individuals (all individuals if it'll shut the fucking ACLU up). Hell, offer up a bounty for known illegals, heavily fine those who are caught employing illegals, make it illegal for them to use public services - school, health care, law enforcement, etc. Just make it outright miserable for them to be here and I'm sure they'll go somewhere else. Fuck it. You guys can have 'em all. They're a drain on our budgets and it's not like they bring rainbows and unicorns wherever they go - more like higher crime and lower property values.

State governments should provide education. State governments should provide social services unless they're services earned through service to the government. A 100% over-haul of the health care system to benefit less than 10% of Americans is something I do not support. (Health care costs aren't dropping, either...) I support the Federal government for infrastructure for transportation. The role of government in my world is to protect our borders, destroy our enemies, maintain infrastructure and to let me do whatever the fuck I want to do without getting up my ass about it. In my perfect world, the government would be extremely small and very limited.

As far as the magic wand - why don't you ask the Administration or all the Obama fans who put that moron in office. He's the one that said unemployment wouldn't break 8% if we used his stimulus package. His administration also said the jobs that were lost may never come back. He's the one who thinks his policies have actually helped America.

He's a terrible president and his policies aren't much better.

I do enjoy being able to say, "I told you so."


So your idea of not expanding of the government is to give a massive additional responsibility to the police, spend billions on securing the borders, and implement draconian new laws and regulations? For some reason that looks exactly like what I would imagine an expansion of the government would look like.

As for the role of government, it sounds like you want them to do pretty much what they're already doing while getting smaller, and decrease tax revenues while eliminating the deficit. Something in this equation doesn't add up. You also think Obama is dumb for not instantly conjuring millions of jobs out of thin air, but you don't seem to have any actual idea of what it would take to create those jobs either. What does that make you?


Last edited by Laelia on Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:19 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:18 pm
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The illegals are here illegally.

the cops are here to fight crime.

sounds like a good idea to me.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:36 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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Usdk wrote:
The illegals are here illegally.

the cops are here to fight crime.

sounds like a good idea to me.


An expansion of police powers and responsibilities is still an expansion, whether or not you think it's something worth doing.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:45 am  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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I could completely and totally fix everything that is wrong with this country using a modified version of the 7 Year Plan proposed by Confucius, but this will never happen.

It will never happen because no one would let me.

Proposed:
*Adjust government spending so that it is tied to the GDP, as in making a fixed percentage of the past year's GDP.

*Allocating at least ten percent of that spending to paying down the national debt until such time as that debt is either eliminated or brought to a percentage of the past year's GDP that is less than 10%.

*Decentralize decision making by returning certain responsibilities to the states. This would include not tying federal funding to the states making laws/decisions in line with federal mandates...such as the "make your legal drinking age 21 or don't get highway money."

*Cease attempts to "stabilize" the economy and remove the natural ups and downs of the economic cycle by ending all subsidies and corporate welfare.

*Ease constraints on energy production to encourage expansion of energy infrastructure. Because of regulatory constraints and NiMBY opposition, we haven't built a new oil refinery in this country since Jimmy Carter was president.

*Cut the federal workforce by at least 45%. Raise standards for government employees. Employment in the government should be viewed as serious professional business, and be a position worthy of respect. Sadly, I do not believe that is the case now. I would be inclined to institute serious testing of knowledge and ethics to qualify for a government position, in much the same fashion as the Chinese Mandarin form of governance.

*Move from a production based to consumption based tax system (income tax bad, sales tax better). This would encourage productivity and thrift while discouraging wasteful extravagance...and would put the bulk of the tax burden on those who spend the most (which is generally the wealthy).

*As unhappy as I am with our...efforts...in the various sandboxes, I have to give Obama kudos for just not pulling out like an idiot. However........there are a lot of things I would have done differently than this president or the one before him.

I would probably do more, but I'll make those decisions after the Mothership arrives and my people take over.

Your Pal,
Jubber


AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:38 am  
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Obama Zombie
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Laelia wrote:
You also think Obama is dumb for not instantly conjuring millions of jobs out of thin air, but you don't seem to have any actual idea of what it would take to create those jobs either. What does that make you?
It makes me the guy who can't change policy - I don't have the power in politics and I don't have hundreds of economists at my disposal. He does. That makes him the bad President because he can't get anything done. Polls say the economy is the number one issue to Americans... if that's the case don't you think he should've spent more time on that instead of trying to craft some half-ass health care reform? His priorities are fucked and because of it he's going to hand the Republicans power this November. (One term president, too.)

As for jobs, I kinda already said what would spur growth... Help immigration, trim back regulation, lower taxes, etc. I believe any of these three things would help our problem.

OH LOL BUT WE CAN JUST PRINT MOAR MONEYIS!!!
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