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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:02 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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i really don't want to say much, but people's eyes need to be open. Segregation seems fine and people bring more attention to interracial couples because that's different than what once was. People growing up where segregation was rule. Do you really think those people would feel that interracial is ok? It takes an open mind to to make that stubbornness go away. You do see however that segregation is decreasing and interracial couples are increasing, the way it should be.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:13 pm  
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Get Off My Lawn!
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We have to be careful lest we are banished to the argument area, methinks. :D


Kamguh, you were born at Baylor. Polk Terrace, where I grew up was down on the south side, North and West of 35 and where I-20 is now (there was no I-20 then). In 1972, we moved to Duncanville where I finished High School, got married, raised my sons, etc.


Spure, what year did you graduate? My wife taught English at Duncanville High School for a few years.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:15 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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2006


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:20 pm  
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Just missed each other. Her last year there was 2000, and it looks like you got there in the fall of 2001. What a campus, though, eh? That place is more like a college than most colleges. You guys should google that place and check it out. Huge.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:28 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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i got there in 04 i lived in NY before that. But i got to set foot on the old and renovated campus. Was very nice, I was part of student council which is a big deal in this state and duncanville. Had a lot of fun going to different parts of the state on weekend conferences and meeting people from different schools. We always felt we were better than the rest, but were pretty humble about it, but the other schools loved us. I think them meeting someone from duncanville was like them meeting someone from a frat.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:42 pm  
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French Faggot
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I'd say this intentional segregation is case by case. I'll use Rutgers as an example (admittedly not the best one, since it's in the Northeast and it's a college campus). The New Brunswick campus is roughly 30% asian and 10% black, with a smattering of everyone else and then about half being whiteys. It's easiest to use the asian students here, because they're most observably the ones that are split in how to group themselves.

On the one hand, there's tons of asian frats, associations, etc; groups of said asians as far as a casual observer can tell associate only with each other and speak Mandarin or Korean in the streets. I can't really say much more here because first off I don't speak the same languages as them, and they wouldn't have bothered trying to talk to me anyway.

On the other side of the coin, there's the asian students who want absolutely nothing to do with the ones that refuse to speak English in public, go out of their way to make mostly non-asian friends, and (to simplify) are really just white guys/gals who aren't physically white.

The same is true to a lesser extent with the black students, though they don't have the benefit of a second language to be all annoying and secretive, and as far as personal experience goes, they're far likelier to take up a conversation with you.

This brings me to something vaguely related, which is how little I understand people who go out of their way to speak a different language in public when all the participants already speak English. I speak French perfectly, so do my parents and brothers (well, my brothers not perfectly, but it's good enough should we want to ever use it to communicate meaningfully) but we never speak it when there's non-French speakers around because it's mostly rude to be intentionally incomprehensible. Maybe I'm just bitter because I can't eavesdrop on their secret communist plots that I definitely want in on. /endrant


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:47 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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i also think it's rude to switch languages if you're around people. It doesn't bother me if i think they have been speaking their language before i got around them though.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:37 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Spure wrote:
Segregation isn't natural, we are considered one species, therefore integrating ourselves and becoming genetically diverse and thus more fit would be natural. But white people have a problem with this, because here in america if a black man and a white woman were to have a kid, that child would be considered black. The white race would be wiped out. The black man is genetically dominant here, but you didn't know that.


I don't agree with this one bit.

It is human nature to dislike and distrust that which is not like us. Racial bias is inborn in humans and it is the cause of so much social difficulty precisely because, like a propensity for violence, it is hard to condition out.

That you believe black to be dominant to white is proof of this. Black being dominant to white is a purely human conception because white people see those who are not white as black. This does not hold up scientifically either because race is chromosomally polymorphic.

To Boredalt: That's a very hard thing, I know - good versus evil is a much easier story to internalize than shades of grey. You have to weigh the evils of injustice against inequity. Hate breeds hate and the line between persecutor and persecuted blurs.

My mother grew up in Queens, in the barrio. One day, we were in San Francisco, and got something to eat and drink at an old coffee store. My mother ordered something, but as she did, her entire inflection and bearing subtly changed.

After we left, I said I noticed, and asked her why. She very rarely talks about her past, or her family or background: her father, brother and grandfather are all long dead to accidents. Her mother and grandmother are completely ethnic Puerto Rican, speak little English, and even she doesn't find much common ground with them. She denies being able to speak Spanish; my father doesn't believe her.

My mother grew up under the "immersion" English-language doctrine: no instruction in Spanish, people are simply "immersed" in English. My mother passionately believes it was right: she has a total mastery of English, and growing up, it was largely my mother who was absolutely obsessive in teaching me how to not merely read and write but to totally master the use of language. She would stay up with me until the early morning, nitpicking individual articles and synonyms and punctuation marks in what I wrote, even the most petty stylistic elements of writing such as using the same word twice in a paragraph (what's the last time you saw me do that?) Today, most Latinos are in favor of ESL, which my mother views as wrong-headed. And then when she goes outside wearing her coolie hat, Sacramentans address her as if she's a Mexican immigrant, and she turns around and rips into them.

My abrasiveness is largely acquired from my mother (whether she's my biological mother or not, which I actually doubt).

Anyway, she said the coffee shop was exactly like the ones in the barrio where she grew up. She said, "I came back to visit about ten years ago. It was like visiting an old friend that is deathly ill." She described the same thing as Boredalt - violence, destroyed society, the degradation of the physical environment and community. It was clearly very sad.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:07 pm  
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On the few occasions I've visited cities in the US I've found the racial segregation to be pretty striking. I grew up in Toronto, which is highly multicultural (half the population are immigrants, and in a few years the city will be <50% white) and seems to have much less rigid segregation. There are certainly enclaves where most people (or more noticeably the stores) are a certain ethnicity, but you see lots of people of other ethnicities in those areas and the majority of neighbourhoods are mixed. I'm sure the historical factors are a major reason for this - the diversity in Toronto is a pretty recent phenomenon - but it's certainly possible to have diverse and integrated cities.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:17 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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Aestu wrote:
Spure wrote:
Segregation isn't natural, we are considered one species, therefore integrating ourselves and becoming genetically diverse and thus more fit would be natural. But white people have a problem with this, because here in america if a black man and a white woman were to have a kid, that child would be considered black. The white race would be wiped out. The black man is genetically dominant here, but you didn't know that.


I don't agree with this one bit.

It is human nature to dislike and distrust that which is not like us. Racial bias is inborn in humans and it is the cause of so much social difficulty precisely because, like a propensity for violence, it is hard to condition out.

That you believe black to be dominant to white is proof of this. Black being dominant to white is a purely human conception because white people see those who are not white as black. This does not hold up scientifically either because race is chromosomally polymorphic.



but yet you're agreeing with me. You said segregation is human nature, but if WE consider ourselves as ONE species then why are we segregating ourselves? I said blacks to be genetically dominant under what white people considered black and white as I said before and as you just REPEATED, but that isn't suppose to hold up scientifically, right? How about you tell that to the man who created the one drop rule? And this is ONE of the reasons behind segregation. You can not say what holds up scientifically and then take up violence as "human nature" over science's law of species.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:43 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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simple: the masses are asses.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:00 pm  
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The one drop rule? I never formally heard of this rule but I'm guessing it has something to do with black mixing with white will never be white again... but something with a shade in between? A black co-worker said that to me once but I turned it and asked if a bucket of black paint would ever be as black with a drop of white paint.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:46 pm  
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Generally speaking, I believe human beings are predisposed to a “strength in numbers” mentality. I think we are naturally drawn to those who are more “like me” when a choice is available, and these choices present themselves in subtle ways more often than we realize. Does this mean we can’t have close friends, lovers, and family of other colors? Of course not. But in an uncomfortable, unfamiliar setting, most people will segregate, imo.


Spure wrote:
i also think it's rude to switch languages if you're around people. It doesn't bother me if i think they have been speaking their language before i got around them though.


Agreed. Generally, multi-lingual people who deliberately speak so that others around them can not understand are trying to elevate themselves.


Aestu wrote:
To Boredalt: That's a very hard thing, I know - good versus evil is a much easier story to internalize than shades of grey. You have to weigh the evils of injustice against inequity. Hate breeds hate and the line between persecutor and persecuted blurs.


This is especially true with children; even more when a lot of what you hear from your elders doesn’t jibe with everything you are experiencing. However, there was enough validation provided by all sides to confirm any prejudices we walked in carrying, if we looked for it. More on this later.


Aestu wrote:
(whether she's my biological mother or not, which I actually doubt)


Records certainly point to her being your mom, sir.


Laelia wrote:
it's certainly possible to have diverse and integrated cities.


I agree with this. The street I live on is a fine example. There are approximately twenty houses on my street. These houses are mostly filled with white people, but there is one black family, two Hispanic families, three Indian families, one Korean family, and one Lebanese family. Pretty diverse, but I believe it comes at a price. While everyone is friendly, and we talk/wave in passing, there is no real sense of community. And, I’m not placing blame on anyone. There are some cultural divides that are difficult to bridge, even if the many sides had a desire to do so; a desire which is not manifest.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:52 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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I have the birth certificate next to me. It's a piece of paper and I don't take it at face value.

But I did want to ask you something. My paternal grandmother's family was supposedly related to Freud. I believe it was my paternal grandmother; it might have been my paternal grandfather. If you could research the exact connection - if real - I'd appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:58 pm  
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Get Off My Lawn!
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Aestu wrote:
I have the birth certificate next to me. It's a piece of paper and I don't take it at face value.

But I did want to ask you something. My paternal grandmother's family was supposedly related to Freud. I believe it was my paternal grandmother; it might have been my paternal grandfather. If you could research the exact connection - if real - I'd appreciate it.


I'd be happy to find what I can. Please email me facts you know about her, her husband, and her parents. Anything you know would be helpful.


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