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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:43 pm  
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Stupid Schlemiel
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Isn't the real issue that the people who have accounts with these banks would lose their money?

Quote:
if so banks should be government owned >.>


I take this back actually, remembering that every government owned company in Canada has been run into the ground.


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Last edited by Jushiro on Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:46 pm  
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Azelma wrote:
Eturnalshift wrote:
I'd place more weight on the individual taking the loan rather than the government and/or bank. As far as I'm concerned, predatory lending wouldn't exist if people would understand what they're signing. (If you sign and agree to something without actually reading/understanding what you're signing then there is no one to blame but the person behind the pen.)


Agreed, morons applying for personal loans who have no way of paying them back, or applying for business loans with a god awful business plan/idea should be sterilized.

However, it is on those banks to realize "this person probably can't pay this back, and will drown in the interest, we shouldn't lend them money". Predatory lending is a real thing...and you know what? When everyone is defaulting, the banks simply go to the government and say "uh, hey...we gave out all these loans to people who had no business getting them, coz times were good...now they can't pay us back and so we can't pay other people back...and we're just kinda fucked, halp?"

Then the government says OKAY, and gives these banks TAXPAYER dollars (because they are "too big to fail"), all while the executive assholes at these banks get to chill out with their fat salaries. I'm surprised this doesn't piss you off. You want to blame the individual...but they are the one's APPLYING for the loan...it is the greater responsibility of the bank to say "wow, this person is very risky...if we give them money...we probably won't get it back." ESPECIALLY because these banks then fuck themselves and get bailed out by YOU AND ME.

How is this not the responsibility of the banks, the people with the money?

If some crack head came up to me, and asked to borrow $20 bucks. And I made him sign a little contract that said "ill lend you this 20 bucks, and charge you interest on it" Then, the crack head takes the 20 bucks, spends it on crack...and I keep charging interest, but he never pays it...so then i can't get my money back, and he has nothing really of value except his piss-stained pants...so I'm now losing money..

Then I come to you Eturnal, and tell you about this...and say "so I'm kinda fucked, can you pay me the money the crack head was supposed to give me"

What would you say? Who's at greater fault? The crack head who asked for money and "signed the contract" that stipulated I could take his piss-stained pants (which I overvalued)...or me, the educated rich person, who gave it to him in hopes i could collect a ton of interest off him and make a huge profit?

For starters, banks went to the government because the government was part of the reason they had to lend risky mortgages. Jubber (in this thread) and I (in other threads) have repeatedly referenced the community reinvestment act which the government strong-armed some of the larger banks into lending out loans to high-risk individuals. Smaller banks (which have much less in assets) weren't as effected because, in part, they're not touched by the CRA so they can loan to individuals they deem worthy of their money. Other means in which the government can impact lending practices is through anti-recrimination laws. I don't know exact demographics and numbers because I have no dog in this fight, but if there is a history of one race or economic condition (say Hispanics or single-mothers) which has a higher default rate then why can't the banks choose to not lend to that group of people? Law says they have to lend to that group of people because they can't discriminate... but should you (or someone holding your money) be forced to lend your assets (or a portion of your assets) to a person who is at a higher risk of defaulting?

See the problem? You can't deny that crack head his $20 because of his drug addiction, a criminal history, his education or skin color. You can only lend to him if he meets some low-ball qualifications. You're smart and you know you shouldn't give to that person (despite their meeting whatever low criteria needs to be met) but your hands are tied.

Government is partly to blame because this is the system they made.
Banks are partly to blame because they go along with the government plan.
The individual is mostly to blame because they agreed and signed the document making everything a done-deal.

PSEDIT: I didn't agree/support the bailouts. I think Jubber has been on the record saying he didn't support them, either.


Last edited by Eturnalshift on Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:52 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Jushiro wrote:
Isn't the real issue that the people who have accounts with these banks would lose their money?

if so banks should be government owned >.>

Until the US Government learns to manage their money they can't manage ours, imo.

(PS: People who have their money in the bank is insured up to $250,000/account... way more than most people here will ever have in a single account.)
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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:01 pm  
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Stupid Schlemiel
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Eturnalshift wrote:
(PS: People who have their money in the bank is insured up to $250,000/account... way more than most people here will ever have in a single account.)


Oh that's good, but who pays for that if they go bankrupt.


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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:08 pm  
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The FDIC is like any other insurance company. As I understand it (which I may be wrong on), there is a premium that is paid for (by the banks, I believe) to insure all persons with holdings in the bank. This insurance premium is held in a separate reserve fund in case a bank were to fail. The money would get paid out to those who lost their money up to the FDIC limit. The problem with the FDIC is it wouldn't be able to sustain a massive failure of the banking system... much like how a home owners insurance company will be in trouble if there is a massive natural disaster which caused them to pay out to a huge number of people.

PS: Not all banks are covered by the FDIC but that's not the banks fault - that's the depositors fault for not going to a bank where their money is insured.
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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:57 pm  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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Mns wrote:
No, I'm just wondering how its the government's fault that the banks pulled stuff like predatory lending. I suppose it is because the banks weren't as tightly regulated as they should be, but I don't think that's what he's getting at.


It's (in part) the government's fault exactly because of the way they regulated (or threatened to regulate). There were threats that institutions that didn't meet the requirements of the Community Reinvestment Act were going to be hit with penalties, and/or that new mandates were going to be added. The bulk of what needed to be complied with in the CRA was...here's a shocker...providing loans to minorities. Unfortunately, (and I know I'm a racist who hates brown people for pointing it out) the reason the banks weren't loaning to the numbers of minorities that the government (or the politicians running it) thought they should be was (is?) because most of them were bad credit risks. In order to fulfill the requirements of the CRA, banks had to create a special class of loan in order to provide loan services to these bad credit risks. Take note that even after the Obama loan-restructuring program, most of the people who were in one of these loans are STILL defaulting, even after having been set up with a new loan structure with favorable terms.

Another example of how government "help" ends up hurting the people it's supposed to be helping in the long run...with the bonus this time of dragging a lot of us down along with them.

Your Pal,
Jubber


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AKA "ROFeraL"

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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:55 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
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That's a myth I've yet to see substantiated.

This just in: Banks spend millions on PR to protect their ill-gotten gains because those millions spent do exactly what they're supposed to do, which is get people to believe what the banks want to believe.

Anyone notice how AIG didn't appear on jerseys at the World Cup until they failed and got bailed out?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:56 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
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Eturnalshift wrote:
Azelma wrote:
Eturnalshift wrote:
I'd place more weight on the individual taking the loan rather than the government and/or bank. As far as I'm concerned, predatory lending wouldn't exist if people would understand what they're signing. (If you sign and agree to something without actually reading/understanding what you're signing then there is no one to blame but the person behind the pen.)


Agreed, morons applying for personal loans who have no way of paying them back, or applying for business loans with a god awful business plan/idea should be sterilized.

However, it is on those banks to realize "this person probably can't pay this back, and will drown in the interest, we shouldn't lend them money". Predatory lending is a real thing...and you know what? When everyone is defaulting, the banks simply go to the government and say "uh, hey...we gave out all these loans to people who had no business getting them, coz times were good...now they can't pay us back and so we can't pay other people back...and we're just kinda fucked, halp?"

Then the government says OKAY, and gives these banks TAXPAYER dollars (because they are "too big to fail"), all while the executive assholes at these banks get to chill out with their fat salaries. I'm surprised this doesn't piss you off. You want to blame the individual...but they are the one's APPLYING for the loan...it is the greater responsibility of the bank to say "wow, this person is very risky...if we give them money...we probably won't get it back." ESPECIALLY because these banks then fuck themselves and get bailed out by YOU AND ME.

How is this not the responsibility of the banks, the people with the money?

If some crack head came up to me, and asked to borrow $20 bucks. And I made him sign a little contract that said "ill lend you this 20 bucks, and charge you interest on it" Then, the crack head takes the 20 bucks, spends it on crack...and I keep charging interest, but he never pays it...so then i can't get my money back, and he has nothing really of value except his piss-stained pants...so I'm now losing money..

Then I come to you Eturnal, and tell you about this...and say "so I'm kinda fucked, can you pay me the money the crack head was supposed to give me"

What would you say? Who's at greater fault? The crack head who asked for money and "signed the contract" that stipulated I could take his piss-stained pants (which I overvalued)...or me, the educated rich person, who gave it to him in hopes i could collect a ton of interest off him and make a huge profit?

For starters, banks went to the government because the government was part of the reason they had to lend risky mortgages. Jubber (in this thread) and I (in other threads) have repeatedly referenced the community reinvestment act which the government strong-armed some of the larger banks into lending out loans to high-risk individuals. Smaller banks (which have much less in assets) weren't as effected because, in part, they're not touched by the CRA so they can loan to individuals they deem worthy of their money. Other means in which the government can impact lending practices is through anti-recrimination laws. I don't know exact demographics and numbers because I have no dog in this fight, but if there is a history of one race or economic condition (say Hispanics or single-mothers) which has a higher default rate then why can't the banks choose to not lend to that group of people? Law says they have to lend to that group of people because they can't discriminate... but should you (or someone holding your money) be forced to lend your assets (or a portion of your assets) to a person who is at a higher risk of defaulting?

See the problem? You can't deny that crack head his $20 because of his drug addiction, a criminal history, his education or skin color. You can only lend to him if he meets some low-ball qualifications. You're smart and you know you shouldn't give to that person (despite their meeting whatever low criteria needs to be met) but your hands are tied.

Government is partly to blame because this is the system they made.
Banks are partly to blame because they go along with the government plan.
The individual is mostly to blame because they agreed and signed the document making everything a done-deal.

PSEDIT: I didn't agree/support the bailouts. I think Jubber has been on the record saying he didn't support them, either.


Wall of text, two word response.

Fair
Play

If you expect that from an organization out to make money no matter what, you're the fool from whom money is soon to be parted.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:08 pm  
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French Faggot
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:15 pm
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You're allowed to discriminate on the basis of bad credit. You're not allowed to discriminate based on race. It's really not that hard to swallow, retards.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:11 pm  
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Jubbergun wrote:
this whole "corporations/business are/is bad" mindset you have goes entirely the other direction and looks to absolve other guilty parties of their role(s) for the sole purpose of putting the onus entirely on your personal boogey-man.

In hindsight, this is irony at its finest.


RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:35 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Once upon a time, there was a story about a guy who really hated bankers.

Something about money changers and temples, right?

Image

Yeah. So, thinking they were nice people and funding their desire to build their own temples... that was a brilliant move on everyone's part, right?

"Laughing all the way to the bank" involves a lot of laughter if you are the bank.


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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:11 pm  
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:46 pm
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Eturnalshift wrote:
For starters, banks went to the government because the government was part of the reason they had to lend risky mortgages. Jubber (in this thread) and I (in other threads) have repeatedly referenced the community reinvestment act which the government strong-armed some of the larger banks into lending out loans to high-risk individuals. Smaller banks (which have much less in assets) weren't as effected because, in part, they're not touched by the CRA so they can loan to individuals they deem worthy of their money.


There's no evidence that the CRA had anything to do with the financial crisis that made the bailouts necessary. The vast majority of the subprime loans that caused the crisis were either made to higher income people or by mortgage companies not regulated by the CRA - only about 6% of subprime loans were made by CRA-regulated banks to people in low-income neighbourhoods covered by the CRA, and there's no evidence that loans made under the CRA had higher default rates. As well, the crash affected commercial real estate even more heavily than residential, even though the CRA had nothing to do with commercial real estate.


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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:19 pm  
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Mns wrote:
Jubbergun wrote:
this whole "corporations/business are/is bad" mindset you have goes entirely the other direction and looks to absolve other guilty parties of their role(s) for the sole purpose of putting the onus entirely on your personal boogey-man.

In hindsight, this is irony at its finest.


Pointing your finger at me and screaming "IRONY" doesn't make you any less guilty.

Your Pal,
Jubber


AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste
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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:23 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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Banks are actually pretty awesome -- UNTIL YOU ADD KEYNESIAN(fail fiat) ECONOMICS AND "FED" CENTRAL BANKS


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 Post subject: Re: Fucking Banks
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:35 am  
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Watch "Inside Job" and you will hate banks even more.


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