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GE buys NBC. NBC and affiliates shit talk obama's opponents and praises obama til you think he could jizz in your eye and cure blindness. Obama gets elected. GE pays no taxes and gets the wind energy contracts. GE sells NBC.

this sort of shit happens with every administration.

Not speaking for him here, but my take on it is that it instills a lottery mentality. Too much emphasis is placed on the individual and on personal success, and the illusion that anyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps to become anything they want. The American Dream is an accidental propaganda tool, because by focusing only on success stories, it glosses over the huge failure rate of burgeoning entrepreneurs or whatever sort of money-friendly "self-reliant" or "self-made" (bullshit, if you know anything about startups) business is in vogue and props up this false sense of greatness that's immediately shattered as soon as the realization is made that this country runs on credit (and by that time, the unlucky bastard's sunk so deep in debt that the lesson's learned too late).

No one makes it on their own.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

I disagree here - and I work for a startup. Internet startups are a whole different breed.


I agree with you though about restaurants/little shops/etc (places where you definitely need a sizeable loan to get things going if you don't have the capital yourself).

So the American Dream is to own a start-up company? I always thought it was something more along the lines of Freedom and potential for success/prosperity, by whichever standard the individual sets. Through my interpretation, I think we're all pretty free (less free than we have been, but more free than most other places in the world) and we all have a potential for success and prosperity; that potential opens up risk and failure, too. Generally, the greatest risks have the greatest rewards... yada yada yada.

This.

I don't think it's "oh go start your own business" although I think that's one part of America that's so great. In France and other European countries, it is 38473984734 times harder to start a business than it is here.

The "American Dream" is more about upward mobility and the fact that if you work hard, you will be rewarded. It's one reason why most Americans are working 40-60 hour + weeks while the Europeans are taking siestas and working < 30.

Case and point - neither my mom or dad graduated from college. My mom works at JC Penny. But she worked hard enough to provide for me, and instill values etc. and I got a college degree and am now successfully working at a great startup company.

To me that's the American Dream. The thing is, everyone has their own unique interpretation of it - i don't see how it's destroying america though.

Inb4 someone starts talking about human life quality indexes or something irrelevant.

The US actually has less social mobility than many European countries.

Intergenerational income elasticity (lower means more mobility):


Somewhat dated data, but this is what most people would see as upwards mobility:
Income mobility, late 1980s-mid 1990s (percent of low-income families exiting low-income status each year)


If you truly want to pursue the American Dream, I guess you should move to Denmark. As a bonus, Danes are also happier than Americans:

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

I was using startups as an example. The American Dream is smoke and mirrors, and it pushes people into risks they wouldn't take if they realized the chances of payoff were so slim. It also puts this bogus notion of a "self-made man" on a pedestal, which really just encourages foul play since there's no such thing as a self-made man. Anyone who claims to be one is a deluded moron and is refusing to acknowledge all the people who carried him to where he is (or all the people he's trampled to get there, and the carrying still goes on with the willingness thrown out the window).

Pieface: apparently Israelis are happier than Americans. I find that unusual, considering they're dealing with shaky diplomatic territory, unpopular policies, and a crushing drain on resources in the form of a non-working baby-spamming Orthodox (the real crazies, not just the funny hat guys) population getting tons of handouts.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

The index is based on self-assessment, with the question being:



There are probably a lot of factors involved, but I would imagine that the stronger economic situation in Israel is relevant, as is the relative level of safety compared to the recent history of the country.

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

So basically, what you're saying is that your charts are bullshit because they're based on subjective interpretation and not on objective data? It doesn't matter what the reality is so long as everyone feels good about it, amirite?

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

The happiness one is subjective because happiness can't be measured objectively. The social mobility charts are based on objective economic data.

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

I thought it was more of trying to make ends meet. I'm sure that if you gave the average american the choice of working 40-60 hour weeks with little to no vacation and health insurance as opposed to ~30 hour work weeks, a guaranteed 30 days of paid vacation, and free healthcare, they won't pick the first one.

PS: Tuhl's pretty much spot-on. The rich and socially oppressed came over here in much less frequency than the poor looking for a new lease on life.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

I'd rather fail freely than succeed through dictation.

FWIW, Denmark beats the US on the Heritage Foundation/WSJ Index of Economic Freedom too

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

Through the sheer power of Scandinavia's awesomeness.