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the race of the individual has nothing to do with the possibility of a hate crime or not. mayo's right about the fact that if no slurs are tossed around, throwing "hate crime" on it doesn't mean it will stick.

all it boils down to is that two ignorant girls didn't understand that some dude who got his shit reorganized is allowed into the women's restroom because he now is a she(I think thats the rules, anyway)

I wouldn't bring the "reverends" into it. they're some of the worst examples of Americans i've ever seen. they're like the media, only they specifically deal with discrimination(even when its not there) and they hate the jews. way to stay away from hypocrisy "Holy" men.

Because that sort of incorrect self-image is the product of the pressures and irrational nature of modern society. Modern society does not adequately address the nature and passions of the human beast, and the mind compensates through creating such disorders.

It is degraded because to become overly preoccupied with one's sexual nature, or to define one's identity or self-actualization in sexual terms, is a lesser state of moral worth than defining one's identity or actualization in higher terms, in terms of one's beliefs, values, or experiences apart from the purely hedonistic.



I would say that if they feel like screwing members of the same gender, it's entirely their choice to pursue their sexual desires in such a way. Whatever floats their boat. I call them degenerate when their sexuality defines their identity - they run around HEY GAIS IM A GAY MAN or those stupid parades etc in San Francisco. And I feel the same way about straight people too. If you have to let me know you have a dick or boobs and have screwed recently, I consider you a degenerate.



This is where my remark that:



comes into play. Gay rights has nothing to do with this episode. If these degenerates weren't beating the shit out of each other for this reason, they'd find another reason to harm themselves and others. If there was no one else available they would turn to drugs or self-mutilation. Such is the nature of degenerates.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I guess I always thought hate crime could be applied to anything where there were different races involved. IE: If I go outside and beat the shit out of some black guy for no reason, people could label it as a hate crime. I guess you need to have slurs in it to make it a hate crime? I'm not sure that's the case. I thought the "hate" was more arbitrary and kind of a legal BS so you can punish people more harshly.



Fair they may not have understood...but that's not even what it boils down to - since a normal person who didn't understand such a thing might just make a snide comment and tut tut a bit, then let it drop - perhaps they'd gossip about it later at the dinner table.

What it these hood rats did though, is completely flip out and proceed to beat the ever living shit out of this person, so much so that she had a seizure. Given Eturnal's post about the previous one having an issue at the same McDonalds...this is a bitch who just looks for fights and needs to be locked the fuck up.

You say they "didn't understand". Why did they come to believe something was amiss in the first place? That's what I want to know.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I dunno guys... this might be pushed into the Hate Crime arena since Gender Identity is covered by Hate Crimes Act.




Based on the first screen capture, Vernon Hacket (the fired McDonalds employee) states that the attack happened after there was a discussion which Vernon determined (falsely, perhaps) the gender identity of the person. That also falls in line with what Polis had said in an interview with the Baltimore Sun, "They said, 'That's a dude, that's a dude and she's in the female bathroom,'"... also, that interview/article states that Polis said had the surgery to become a woman. Since she had the surgery to become a woman then she's entitled to use the womans restroom, yes? If she is a man (with man parts) then I can understand there being some discussion... but certainly not an ass-beating of that degree. I wonder if a man using the wrong bathroom and getting an ass kicking because of it is 'Hate Crime' material?

Edit: A bit of clarity.


Because people say shit without knowing the truth and/or details (see, your first post in this thread)...

Also,

Do you have evidence for this?



What defines "overly preoccupied"? If you think sexual identities aren't important, why does it matter to you if someone wants to change theirs?

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

My contention is negative. Your contention is positive. The burden of proof lays with you.



To define oneself sexually - "the first foot forward". e.g., ewhores, gay freaks, and he-men who hit on anything that moves

I don't care if others want to mutilate themselves. Just don't invent some sort of pseudoscientific rationalization for it or pretend the reason for doing so is anything but one's own gratification.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

The idea of a hate crime is durp.

A crime is a crime, tacking on extra punishment for a certain type of thought behind the crime is horseshit.

I'm not sure if this thread is trying to make a specific point about hate crimes, but it's not race-specific as of 2009 (as Eturnal mentioned a few posts ago).



Your contention is bogus and entirely based on personal values. Hide behind burdens all you want.

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That's entirely my point, really. All this "hate crime," racial-identity, us vs. them bullshit only serves to balkanize our society. That shit needs to stop. We need to hold everyone to the same standard(s) and stop making excuses for abhorrent behavior (oh, they're poor! oh, they're oppressed! they just didn't know any better because of it!). Until we treat everyone the same, the issue of race (and all the other divisions we've developed) continue to be a thorn in our side.

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Way to derail the thread

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You made a factual claim about why some people are transgendered (ie. that it "is the product of the pressures and irrational nature of modern society"). If this is true, surely you can provide evidence (although I can guess from your waffling here that actually you don't have any). As for the "proof" for my assertion, people who get gender reassignment surgery feel they were born as the wrong gender. I don't see how anyone else can argue with the accuracy of their feelings. Chromosomes have nothing to do with self-identity.



What makes you think transgendered people are defining themselves primarily by their sexual identity? Some of them no doubt do, just as some straight or gay people do, but to assume that all do and label any transgendered person as a "degenerate" is simply ignorant.

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

Gender is not a uniquely human phenomenon, and the origin, purpose and nature of gender in other organisms is well understood. You don't ask a plant or a frog or a cow what gender it "thinks" it is, that judgement is made based on physical factors.

Your argument is that we should second-guess the standard biological definition of gender because of some people's wants.

This is no different than the argument for a belief in God: "because I (or someone else) feels like there's a God out there".

And you could just as easily argue that humans ought to all put on Daedalus wings because dreams of flying are common - that because humans apparently often have an inborn urge to fly that our not having wings is a physical defect and not merely the product of the many quirks of human nature.

Some people's feelings is a pretty flimsy basis for a scientific theory.



For one thing, in this narrow example, my question of how these people learned she was a tranny hasn't been addressed.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Ya know what's real fucking pathetic about this? Someone gets beat so badly they get a seizure and your first step is to turn it into a political issue.

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