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I wonder how much of that is going to the Welfare Projects in Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan (because let's face it, the US Military is the biggest welfare program in human history).

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

I dont think anyone here disagrees that we need to cut military spending.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010 ... udget.html

Just pulled the first budget chart (it's the 2010 proposal) I found for the 2011 budget and I'm not sure how this has been updated with all the continuing resolutions to pass... but it shows about 317B for operations and maintenance, which funds the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, with another 154B for military personnel, which isn't all in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. The estimated appropriations for both Iraq and Afghanistan in 2011 are around 160B. (That figure doesn't include Libya, which is a relatively small scale operation, since the budget was released before that mess.)

Compared to the 260B for Medicaid, 84B for Unemployment, 80B for Foodstamps, 500B for Medicare and 600B for Social Security, I'd think the military isn't the largest welfare program.

Please don't toss all that math into Mayo's hyperbole and exaggeration. It takes all the fun out of it.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Except all that stuff is more useful than a giant military that engages in wars that nobody cares about.

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

yeah teaching people to live off the government instead of looking to make do for themselves is a way better idea.


we spend too much money on ALL of that shit.

I would say the majority of the military's funding is just as wasteful and misspent as social welfare programs are.

However, they are both necessary and could both be more effective for less money.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Because making essential, life-saving medicines more affordable to people (AMERICANS) who need them means they are leeching the government.

It's this ridiculous and seemingly uneducated notion that will propel our country backwards while other countries continue to push ahead. Where's the USA USA USA now?

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

The government doesn't make things "affordable." All the government does is distort markets by altering the costs to the end-user. That's one of the reasons we have the issues with healthcare that we have now. It's one of the reasons doctors and hospitals are deciding against participating in Medicare/Medicaid programs now. When the payments from government don't match the costs of care, providers charge other patients more to balance the books (one of the reasons you'll see ridiculous charges like $30 for a few acetaminophen on your hospital bill), which drives up the cost of healthcare for everyone else.

We should return to the days of medical insurance covering catastrophic disease/injury, do away with the HMO/managed care paradigm, and have people once again pay out-of-pocket for non-emergency care. When the cost the user sees (after the initial monthly cost of the insurance) is only $10-$30 of co-pay for a medical visit, there's not much incentive to stay home and take some Robitussin instead of taking up space in a clinic because they have the sniffles.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Break the regional monopolies that health insurance companies have. If they have to compete with each other like say, state farm and allstate car or homeowner's insurance do, competition will solve the problem. coverage will go up and prices will go down to compete with the other guy, which is as american as you can get.

Or they'll just collude just like they're doing now.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

well stop whatever they're doing now. by breaking that shit.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/study-confirms-health-monopoly-fears

People have been well aware of it for a long time.

Impeding the invisible hand by allowing people to break up oligarchies?

Socialist.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

What the companies are doing is borderline illegal.

What the government is doing is trying to make things more affordable by having businesses(read: people) pay for it.

That's playing by the rules that the insurance companies are writing, and is the wrong solution to that problem.

Break the monopolies.

It's also that whole "lassiez faire" thing that everyone has a hard-on about. The thing is that in economies like that, instead of everything being mom and pop stores ala 1953, every market will eventually drift into a massive monopoly, which is what we're seeing right now.

You wanted a "free" market? This is what its going to be.


Businesses have money and increasing taxes of ANYONE is apparently political suicide in this country. These people have to eat and need roofs over their heads. Where do you expect the money to come from?


This is entirely true, but I don't think that taxing businesses to pay for the poor is an example of this.

By the way, this is what happens when all of that mean and nasty government gets out of the lives of the backs of the biggest businesses. This is what real deregulation looks like, as opposed to some sort of "RON PAUL" Alternate Universe where everyone plays by the rules when there aren't any.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]