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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:11 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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It's the only conservative news network because conservatism sucks. Nobody wants to hear it.

It has good ratings because of sensationalism. Only the uneducated can get caught in that trap. Also, retards can't read the newspaper or use a computer.


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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:13 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Fantastique wrote:
It has good ratings because of sensationalism.


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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:16 am  
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Fantastique wrote:
It's the only conservative news network because conservatism sucks. Nobody wants to hear it.

Yet the Fox News ratings are pretty good, despite no one wanting to hear the message. Furthermore, Conservative Talk Radio does better than Liberal Talk Radio (which isn't always listened to via the airwaves but can be streamed on the internet as well, which should silence criticisms that Conservatives are behind the times).

Quote:
It has good ratings because of sensationalism. Only the uneducated can get caught in that trap. Also, retards can't read the newspaper or use a computer.

Again with the name calling. Aren't you getting tired of it, yet? I know I am. The fact is your very post is laden with misinformation (saying no one wants to hear conservative talk when the ratings clearly state otherwise) and that you're exaggerating and misrepresenting people (without any factual basis by saying conservatives can't use computers or read news papers) simply shows that you're a sensationalist, too. (MSNBC is just as sensationalist but their ratings aren't as well... so I'd think if we take the sensationalism out of both stations we're only left with the message. MSNBC Ratings still suck.)

I know plenty of conservatives that can use computers and I'm sure many liberals can't (consider the under-educated and poor in urban areas), so I'm going to chalk that point up to you talking out your ass.

I tried looking into readership of news papers and I found it would be difficult to compile any information on my own. I could look at subscriptions to larger publications (like the NYT) but I felt the information may have been bias since a majority of the urban publications would reflect a disproportionate number of readers between their conservative counterparts, just because urban areas are often times more liberal than they are conservative and sometimes you don't really have a better alternative. (My mother-in-law gets the Washington Post and she's a Republican.)

The only thing I could do was see if you were right in that conservatives don't read. To analyze this, I figured I could look at the number of clearly biased publications that made it to the NYT Best Seller list for Adult Non-fiction since the year 2000. Since there were dozens of books on the list each week, I decided I would only count books that made it to first place. (Books like Ron Paul's Liberty Defined wasn't included in the list because it never made the number one spot, although I'm sure it has a right-lean to it.) To gather the data I went through the NYT List and wrote down the name of each author and their book if either the author or the book has a clear political bias; Micheal Moore, Ann Coulter, Barack Obama, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Glenn Beck, etc. I tracked how long each book was in the number one position and how many weeks they were on the list. I used http://nytbestsellerlist.com to look up a lot of the 'Weeks on List' values until the year 2010, since sifting through all the lists manually would've been too time consuming. For the books that I couldn't find in that database, I manually went through the list and tallied the appearances. I'm not sure which parameters nytbestsellerlist.com used for being 'on the list' (Top 5, 10, 16 or 30) so when I manually went through, I picked the top 16 (since the NYT Best Seller List highlights those). Granted, I don't read a bajillion books and I don't know all the political pundits on both sides, so there may have been an exclusion or two -- although I'm pretty confident in these numbers.

I found that there were 24 right-leaning books and 11 left-leaning books, where a majority of the right leaning books were released after the election of Obama. Total numbers show the right-leaning books have 91 weeks in #1 while left-leaning books had 61 weeks in #1. Total weeks on the NYT list for right-leaning books was at 311 and 260 for those likely to lean left.

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Does this mean conservatives read more than liberals? Absolutely not! I think this just gives a good indication that conservatives aren't too stupid to read a news paper since they are capable of reading non-fiction novels.

Edited: Added screen cap of spreadsheet.
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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:08 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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tl;dr, you just seemed like you picked out the parts of my post that I was least serious about (not your fault).

the only serious part about my post was this:

Fantastique wrote:
It has good ratings because of sensationalism. Only the uneducated can get caught in that trap.


I guess it's tough to tell online. Also, my name calling this time can be attributed to anyone, not just someone on the right.

I'm pretty sure MSNBC is sensationalist (I don't watch it too much), though to say that they are on par with Fox is nothing short of ignorant. Or biased? It's common knowledge that Fox reporting should almost never be taken seriously (or, at the VERY least, with a grain of salt). MSNBC's attempt to become like Fox will result in a net gain of ratings but it will never top Fox; Fox's target audience is far more responsive to sensationalist reporting. This is where I play the uneducated card. The educated aren't interested in silly reporting from what I have noticed.

Oh and I guess I should also throw in "and they have hot but dumb-as-doornails reporters" to why they have good ratings.


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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:06 pm  
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I picked and choose parts of your post? I responded to the entirety of your post... you'd know that if you didn't TL;DR it.

Fantastique wrote:
This is where I play the uneducated card

Fantastique wrote:
I'm pretty sure MSNBC is sensationalist (I don't watch it too much), though to say that they are on par with Fox is nothing short of ignorant. Or biased?

MSNBC's commentators are just as sensationalist, ensuring all liberals think that all tea partiers are a bunch of angry white guys that hate brown people and want to see the President die. I also remember them misrepresenting Rush Limbaugh's statements about wanting President Obama to fail. (If I'm in the mood, I'll watch MSNBC over O'Reilly and Hannity because I enjoy the comedy) I'm sure I can find other misrepresentations and exaggerations (without picking apart the over-the-top diatribes of Maddow and the has-been Olberman), but I won't have much time in the coming days. Not like you'd read it, anyways, since knowing what the fuck you're talking about is something you seem to care less about. You don't watch MSNBC much. Hell, you probably watch Fox News much less than you watch MSNBC so why even bother? Because you're a liberal and you just want to beat up on Fox News without having a clue since... you... don't... watch... either... enough... to... know... what... you're... talking... about?

I'm not sure MSNBC is going to come close to Fox News (especially since Gore is trying to upstart his leftist channel) but that has yet to be seen.

Also, As far as bias...
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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:13 pm  
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I find that when people say, "it's common knowledge," and then follow up with an opinion instead of, for instance, "water is wet," that what they're really saying is, "this is what I think everyone else thinks, therefore I think it, too."

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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:12 pm  
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Eturnalshift wrote:
non-fiction novels

Quote:
Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck

Hilarious.


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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:30 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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"Not watching much" isn't the same as "never having watched," do not twist my words (not a request). I have watched both, I think both are dumb though one is far dumber than the other. Also, Fox news being retarded is a stereotype. I'm not saying all stereotypes are 100% accurate (lord knows you conservatives will read it that way unless I state otherwise), but all stereotypes exist for a reason. It's not like someone just randomly shouted that Fox news is biased and it somehow caught on. The same goes for MSNBC. Why I have to spell these points out I don't know, nor will I ever.

Also, I am sorry if I have offended you by not having read your previous post (for the record, this is sincere). I know you do your research, not gonna deny it, but your contention that ratings = "good" or something to that effect is too silly for me to bother with. Ratings = people watching, and since the southern US is a large chunk of conservatives (and since they only have one news station to watch), of course Fox is going to have great ratings. Sensationalism is what gets you people going, as far as I have seen. That's all I have to say about that.


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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:21 pm  
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ITT:

Quote:
Conservatives: Apparently, nobody wants to hear about the liberal worldview given the fact that the ratings for Fox are so much higher than those of MSNBC and CNN.

Liberals: No, dude, it's because the target conservative audience doesn't use the Internet in the same way that most younger liberals do. There's more liberal activity online than there is conservative activity anywhere else.

Conservatives: Yeah, whatever.

A few posts later...

Conservatives: FOX RATINGS ARE HIGHER SO SHUT YOUR STUPID WHORE MOUTH


Just pointing that out. So shut the fuck up about ratings.
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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:31 am  
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Quote:
Just pointing that out. So shut the fuck up about ratings.


There are two absolutes for the current iteration of conservatism: 1. Everything should be for profit. 2. The ends always justifies the means.

Who cares if you're lying if you've got high ratings?

Who cares if you torture if you get information?

Who cares if you're running fake candidates to try and confuse voters as long as you snooker your way into power?

Who cares if the country is devastated by poor health and lower wages as long as your financial backers line their (and your) pockets?


inb4 HUR DEM DEMOCRATS DOES BAD FINGS TOO.


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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:20 am  
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Dvergar wrote:
Quote:
Just pointing that out. So shut the fuck up about ratings.


There are two absolutes for the current iteration of conservatism: 1. Everything should be for profit. 2. The ends always justifies the means.


I think you're confusing not condemning people as emissaries of the forces of evil for engaging in commerce with believing that in finding the balance between commerce and other interests, sometimes commerce is the more compelling interest of the two. Which makes point two seem silly when you have a democrat president who thinks energy prices should 'necessarily be higher' and people should be paying out the ass for gas regardless of the effect it has on the economy and people's standard of living because he thinks we should be subsidizing ethanol, solar, and wind-power (the ends), and if what he does to get things there (the means) fucks the 'little people,' what's it matter?

Dvergar wrote:
Who cares if you're lying if you've got high ratings?


Dan Rather? Jayson Blair?

Dvergar wrote:
Who cares if the country is devastated by poor health and lower wages as long as your financial backers line their (and your) pockets?


Given the lies about how certain bailed out companies had payed back their bailouts (when they hadn't), how much of Wall Street's money actually goes into democrat pockets (rich white people in Manhattan are generally not republicans), and the sweetheart deals and favorable legislation for companies like GE (goodbye incandescent bulbs and tax bills) who are willing to play ball with democrats, it's hard to argue democrats are for the 'little guy' and not in the pocket of large business/advocacy groups.


Dvergar wrote:
inb4 HUR DEM DEMOCRATS DOES BAD FINGS TOO.


Not so much that they do bad things, as the things about which you're complaining are the things they're doing.

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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:06 am  
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Quote:
Dan Rather? Jayson Blair?


Oh you mean two people who admitted what they did, resigned, and had the news organizations they worked for do lengthy reports on their misdeeds?

Yeah I see Fox and it's anchors/gasbags take responsibility for their actions like that all the timeOWAITNONOTHEYDON'T.


Jubbergun wrote:
HUR DEM DEMOCRATS DOES BAD FINGS TOO.


Who cares if you're going despicable things as long as the other guy is too?


Dvergar /
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 Post subject: Re: This is why I like Jon Stewart
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:10 pm  
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Dvergar wrote:
Quote:
Dan Rather? Jayson Blair?


Oh you mean two people who admitted what they did, resigned, and had the news organizations they worked for do lengthy reports on their misdeeds?

Yeah I see Fox and it's anchors/gasbags take responsibility for their actions like that all the timeOWAITNONOTHEYDON'T.


Jayson Blair admitted what he did and left, but Dan Rather was forced out and still continues on with 'the story was true even if the evidence was fake' to this very day.

[url=http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/blumenthal/2007/09/27/dan_rather_suit]Mapes and three other producers were dismissed. "60 Minutes II" was abolished. And on the day after Bush's reelection, Rather was unceremoniously fired. His contract had called for him to continue as anchor for an additional year and then to serve as a correspondent for "60 Minutes" and "60 Minutes II," but that promise was not honored. CBS believed that by severing its link with Rather it could put the whole incident behind it and begin a new happy relationship with the ascendant Republicans.

On Sept. 20, the day after he filed his suit, Rather said, "The story was true."
[/url]

And that is from a Salon piece highly critical of Rather's treatment that glosses over a lot of facts and attempts to excuse Rather and his accomplices. In both the Blair and Rather examples, consequences only followed after the organizations in question were embarrassed into action because of scrutiny by other media outlets. Both examples are far more egregious than anything that has ever even been alleged to have happened at Fox.


Dvergar wrote:
Jubbergun wrote:
HUR DEM DEMOCRATS DOES BAD FINGS TOO.


Actually, that's what you said, which is why it's in quote brackets in my post because I'm responding to the thought it represents:

Dvergar wrote:
Who cares if you're going despicable things as long as the other guy is too?


...and as I said, it's not so much that they do bad things, as the things about which you're complaining are the things they're doing.

Your Pal,
Jubber

EDIT:I have no idea why the /url brackets are broken, and I can't make them work, but you can see the link.


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