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You're a smart guy. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

They = Elected Representatives or those appointed to power by our elected representatives

Government's Interests = Whatever the Elected Representatives band together to do, create or accomplish... and whatever that may be isn't necessarily the same as my interests.

but that doesn't mean you can't look up the concept, learn about it, and understand it.

inb4collegeblahblahblah

I actually agree with this one. Well said. Sometimes I just need opinions put into simple terms, rather than bashing and whatnot, which I follow with more bashing and whatnot. It's a never ending cycle after that (see: this thread, jubber getting a smidge flustered, liberals vs conservatives, etc).

But I don't agree with what you guys mean by team. I didn't mean that politicians of a certain party comprise a team; I meant that politicians and the people should be a team, everyone included. Sure, we have some deadweight laying around but I don't think it's as common as you make it out to be. And if we have to pay for a small number of deadweight for the greater good of the country, is it really such a bad thing? For every one unemployed person living on welfare, I'm sure there are MANY more people who are unemployed and actively looking for work. So why can't we care for people who may or may not be directly involved in our lives? Why can't the poor be our concern? *cough* jubber *cough

inb4 Fant's naive. So what? Gonna hate on me for giving a shit about those who aren't in as privileged situation as I am? K, go for it.

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

Well, let's look at the current idea that the rich (the super stars in my analogy) need to be taxed more and how the liberal agenda is to expand entitlement programs.

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

In 2008, the top 1% of earners in America paid 40% of the Federal Income Tax. The top 5% (including the 1%) paid 59% of the Federal Income Tax. That's 5% of the earners in the country paying a majority of the tax burden. The link shows that the lower 50% of earners pays less than 3% of the Federal Income tax. Now, the top 5% aren't likely getting entitlements... but a sizable portion of the lower 50% probably is.

That's half the earners are paying less than 3% the total federal income taxes. That's a lot of dead weight in my opinion.

Granted, those people are probably working jobs I worked when I was in high-school, so they're essentially pulling their weight in society... but when it comes to paying in and taking out, they're a drain on the system.

Now, you're suggesting the poor should be our concern? Well, the government, via entitlements, offers the poor a multitude of opportunities to get ahead. They get all sorts of assistance to help pull themselves out of their situation... but, the people who are striving to better themselves by taking advantage of a free education, working two jobs, making good decisions, not wasting the little money they have on consumables, etc... those are the people who aren't going to remain poor for long. It's true that some people are poor and are just unlucky but other poor people are poor because of their mismanagement of their lives and the greater tax payers shouldn't be forced to subsidize them.

Another thing we should note is that the 'poor' in America aren't really as 'poor' as you may think.



That was taken from a peice by Heritage. If you want to read it, go here.

Since the small percentage of poor people are actually dirt poor, than I think we can do better than shoving our money into the government so they can continue to prop up the poor. Hell, the government hasn't done that great of a job so far, have they? To this, I suggest the truly poor, who have truly tried, can be supported and cultivated by their communities, churches and other charities.

Love,
Some guy who hasn't always been as financially secure and comfortable as he now.

This is the most constructive post in any politics thread so far.

I really don't have any data or evidence, but as far as I know, don't you get taxed based on how much you make? Or is that the fundamental problem and the basis for the conservative argument against entitlements? And when we have super stars like Warren Buffet essentially saying "TAKE OUR MONEY WE HAVE PLENTY!" then aren't some of them willing to take on a tax burden that is by no means a burden to their well-being at all?

Maybe I am being too optimistic and naive, but if I had a ridiculous amount of money that couldn't be spent in a few lifetimes, I really wouldn't have a problem taking on a bit of extra tax so that Obamacare is paid for and 35 million struggling Americans have one less thing to think about. Or so that jobless benefits are extended for another year or more, so that people who are looking for work don't have to contemplate suicide. Or so that <insert entitlement here> so that people who need <entitlement> don't have to worry about <something bad happening>.

Maybe it's the right stance, or maybe it's dead wrong. But to me, it does feel right.

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

I respect this very much btw, even if I don't always show it.

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

Right, except that when you consider that the bottom 80% of the country only own 15% of the country's wealth. That 20% of Americans owning 85% of the wealth, they should be shouldering the burden, because it's the American system that allows them to live in means so far removed from the majority of Americans.



First off, since you want to do "probably" we can both just make up numbers. 50% of the population getting entitlements? Either you have a completely off-base perception of what an entitlement is, or you are completely out of touch with Americans.

Not to mention the massive amounts of money available to businesses from the government (and who do you think benefits from taking in 300 million a year from the government? You think the workers get that divied up in their checks?)



You're arguing about poor, but have absolutely nothing backing up how much money are going to the poor, or how many of the poor are on any type of government assistance at all, your numbers are completely useless and this argument about how well off the poor are is a complete red herring.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Card carrying liberepublicrat.

Let's talk tax burden: Top 5% pay almost 60% of the tax burden, but control about 80% of the total wealth. That my friends is called a bargain.

As to entitlements, they are a slippery slope to be sure and many programs that are now government run were once charitably sponsored, however who do you believe has the ear of the policy makers? Those with money and connections or those without? Who do you think is the primary beneficiary of government contracts and spending? Not all "entitlements" are readily identified as such.

That's fine, but just don't think you're an expert on something because you read something on wikipedia, especially when you're talking with someone who obviously knows what the hell he's talking about.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Hey don't look at me, I'm only an expert in knowing what's write and whats wrong!



















I really hope someone catches that.

At any given level of talent and energy, going into government is pretty much the worst way to get rich and powerful. If wealth, power, and social elitism is what you want, then your best bet is to go into business.

Elected representatives are paid six-digit salaries, but the same level of skill and commitment would yield a salary in the millions or tens of millions in private industry, especially since being elected to office is the summit of a long political career. In private industry, getting in on the ground floor you can get decent pay commensurate to your qualifications. Not so in government, where being a political worker is highly unpleasant with few immediate rewards.

The motivations of elected representatives reflect this process. Basically no one goes into government to get rich. Very few do it so they can self-aggrandize. At worst, they do it because they're ideologues, or out of a quasi-pathological desire to be a demogogue. Realistically, though, most do it because they wish to contribute to our political system, misguided as they may be.

This is working as intended - "if you can make a better way of living than running for office, good government becomes possible". And, compared to other governments, ours is arguably the best there is, especially given the breadth of its responsibilities. Ours is not an isolationist society like Canada or Australia, nor is it homogenous like Germany or France, nor do we have a timelessly stable society like Sweden or Switzerland. Our government reflects the realities that it has to work with.

I speak from knowledge. My brother, who is a very different creature from me, will one day be President; in the here and now, he's a lowly political worker in the employ of the CA state legislature, and there are many like him who will not win out because they do not possess his intelligence and charisma.

By contrast, this is also why business is more interesting for me - because I want power and self-aggrandizement, and I do not have the flexibility to work within the bounds of a democratic system, something that isn't necessarily an insurmountable obstacle should I choose to someday enter politics.

Elected representatives do not have a class interest, and if you believe otherwise, I'm going to have to ask for evidence to support your belief.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Yeah ok.

inv?

A Jewish president?

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Seems to me people get into politics to fix something, however in politics the currency is influence (position, power, favors, etc) so they're always seeking it such that they can effect the change they seek.

It appears to me that along the way the means becomes the goal and the original purpose is lost, until maybe they get to a point where they're just tired of it all and want to try and cash it all in for a shot at the reason they got into all in the first place.

More self-serving than class-serving, that could just be an outsider's (my) perception of things, but I like this tweak of an old adage:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately be explained by greed.