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Now, you can either continue this discourse in your inability to read what I wrote, or you can provide a listing of countries you've visited and how you also can provide examples of the latter part of my statement.

When you're done with that, you can then reread my statement concerning walmart:



Take the consumerism, combine it with empires, then realize your false belief that china pulls the strings is quashed by the fact that china props the US, and can't pull out without severe damage. Abusing the ever living shit out of a country for trinkets you once used to move around on a forklift with an hourly wage that rivals a monthly wage where those trinkets were produced is called an economic empire.

Now, I've been to China 4 times. You're welcome to challenge that with whatever countries you've set foot in, but you simply didn't understand what I was stating. You further compounded it by cracking a poorly informed joke concerning walmart & china, and then followed it up with more Aestu-like side talk and useless fluff instead of actually following up your statement with "I've been to..."

OH OH PISSING MATCH!

I've been to JAMAICA! s^

I mean from what i got out of htat is you are saying he shouldnt assume things without going there first, while assuming he's never been anywhere.


and I suggest you guys get a bit more on topic than "I've been to more places than you."

He was clearly joking, even though China does own a huge amount of our debt, and we keep borrowing more from them.

Take it for what it was, and put your panties back in the drawer.

The best way to explain may be through just a few examples.

Roman Empire: Military over-extending it's reach, ever expanding beyond it's needs fighting barbarians and tribes (whole countries) for false security and means of trade.

Roman Empire: Before it's collapse 1/3 of the people were in debt to someone and forced to work as sharecroppers or other means to pay their debt.

Roman Empire: The currency was being debased by even those supposedly trustworthy to protect it.

Roman Empire: Many of the people became dependent upon the state for their food.

Roman Empire: Was once a republic, but the people were willing to give up their liberty and trade it for security and a brief illusion of wealth instead of trusting their initial policies that made them successful to begin with.

The list goes on.. and on... like MJ in Moscow

Given your response, I wasn't sure you realized any of that was joke. The way you blew off half-cocked, I thought you had taken that seriously.

I've been to more than a few countries, in Eastern Europe (which I will not discuss), I've been to Bolivia, Columbia, Panama, Mexico, and a few places in the Caribbean (which I also will not discuss). The only things that really changes between third-world countries is the language, the climate, and what they eat (which is generally made from crap yet still somehow amazing). Some of the people in those countries don't realize they're living in poverty and think they're doing just fine. Some of them have had enough opportunity to know that they are, and of those a small percentage blame the "American Empire" whether our vast evil tendrils have tickled their lives or not. The funny thing is, many of those that blame the "American Empire" (or at least the ones who openly complain about it) are actually the sons and daughters of the well-off who live as well as your average American. Like most Americans who cluck and fret about our alleged "empire," I don't see them giving up any of their creature comforts to make the world a better place for the "oppressed masses." At least those foreign kids can wash their hands of the problem by blaming America, when you live here and do it, you're just another hypocrite pointing your finger at mists and shadow instead of admitting that you're part of the problem.

The empire nonsense is nothing more than saying "how dare you do better than others?" Empires are forced on other people/countries. We aren't holding guns and missiles on China or India forcing them to do business with us. They welcomed the opportunity with open arms. The same goes for India and every other developing nation where American businesses have moved their plants so they could continue to peddle their wares for a competitive price. How is this "an empire?" Because we're "taking advantage" of foreign people? Does the implied "of course we're taking advantage of them because they're stupid backwards foreigners" not occur to you? People gladly accept something better than what they had, but only because they're somehow deficient? I know enough from my travels to know that the condescending attitude that idea embodies is not popular, and that this sort of smug certainty about the inferiority of the locals is unwelcome.

At least one of the purposes of Empire is to enrich those who control it. Is our economic "empire" enriching us? I don't see it. Americans who demanded $30-$45 an hour for a job that was worth (at most) $15 an hour made manufacturing unsustainable in this country. The problem was further compounded by those same people wanting their goods on cheap. Companies did the only thing they could, which was to cut labor costs by moving production overseas. All we're doing is transferring whatever wealth we have to places like India and China. That's not enriching us, it's bleeding us dry.

Those poor oppressed people making our crap in many cases feel blessed that they could go from scraping for a living to making in a day what an American makes in an hour, because everything's relative, and compared to how they had it before they got a sweat-shop to work in, they're doing a lot better. That will probably change if/when labor organizes in those other countries, just as labor did in this country back when people were working for peanuts in sweat-shops. Maybe they'll learn from our mistakes and not make demands so excessive that it drives their jobs into other countries.

I don't accept the idea that America is responsible for the plight of the people that live in places like China or Saudi Arabia. The ruling class of those countries live like kings. It is not the fault of America(ns) that those at the top of society in other countries are taking so much that it leaves little or nothing for those beneath them. If you want to talk about "empires," point your fingers in the right direction, and concern yourself with those foreign leaders that enrich their lives at the expense of their own people because they treat their territories like petty fiefdoms.

Is America to blame for any of this? Yes, but no more so than any of the other people/countries involved. There is no central controlling authority involved here (another sign of empire we're lacking) pulling the strings of the rest of the world through economic manipulation, no matter what sort of cryptic pseudo-mystical "please look at what I said and tell me how deep and mysterious I am" bullshit you spew or how many times you fly to China.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

No, I left the company I was working for (at the time) when I got fed up with what I saw. You, on the other hand, left your company because you're incapable of working well with others.



If you don't understand how an economic empire works, and how the few benefit while everyone else is just a commodity, then fine.

There was nothing "cryptic" or "pseudo-mystical" about my original post concerning walmart, you're just off on your own little tangent yet again with your assumptions. You posted something about exploiting indigenous populations and go off on your normal "i was joking" trail after being disproven.

You state "it's not our fault" concerning atrocities that occur without the US's influence, but to you, "it's not our fault" for ones that occur with the US's influence. Now, I'll take USD's advice and leave it as it is and safely assume every post you make from here on is a joke.

I dont see how offering a factory job to people who live in a wasteland is a bad thing.

Sure, they make dick compared to us, but if it wasn't better than what they were doing, they wouldn't do it.

just because it's better than what they had before doesn't mean it's not blatant exploitation by our standards.

I don't see what part of this is hard to understand.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Oh I understand that its blatant exploitation by our standards.


But if it betters their lives, it betters their lives. I'm not going to hate on the entire practice because it doesn't better them ENOUGH. encourage them to do more sure, but dont try and prevent them.

oh yeah, well timed article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/business/12advantage.html?_r=3&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a2



I made a speech during summer of last year that you weren't privy to. I said that that which is hidden will no longer be hidden and everyone will eventually see this pathetic country you pledge your allegiance to for what it truly is, a facade.

Your faith in it is disturbing.

edit: That is, unless you adhere to the tenets of older republic.

That wasn't what we were arguing though. If the point being made is that we're enriching ourselves on the backs of exploitative foreign labor, it doesn't matter how you slice it; this is fact.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Hey transparency!

I'm a little fuzzy on my Roman history, but didn't Caesar just destroy the republic so he could have supreme power?

Also, I don't think this is a good correlation, considering the empire, for the majority of its existence, was a monarchy, and was especially so during the Pax Romana.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

monarchy died when the last king was chased out early on in rome, it was a republic most of the time.

So I'm supposed to feel bad because we're (allegedly) mistreating and taking advantage of people but if I leave because I'm not treated properly I'm "incapable of working well with others?" Go fuck yourself, dude. That's such a stretch for a cheap shot that I wouldn't be surprised if you pulled a muscle. Apparently "fed up" is completely justifiable for you, but not good enough for the rest of us.



I don't have a "normal" "I was joking" "trail." The two posts that set the sand in your vagina itching were jokes, and it was obvious enough that they were that others recognized them as such. Just because you chose to slap on your what-ever-color-for-this-cause ribbon and be offended doesn't make them any less of a joke.

There's a big difference between what I said and the idea that "it's not our fault" for these situations. We're just as complicit as the other participants. If those people thought they were being mistreated, they could do exactly what I'm obviously such an anti-social bastard for doing and say, "no thanks, I'm done here." They don't, though, do they? Why is that? Because we're forcing the barrel of a gun down their throat? No, because it's a damn sight better than what they had before and they welcome the opportunity.

If you want to piss and moan about other people's "assumptions," stop making so many of your own. I'm not the asshole that turned this into a shitfest by pulling the ugly/ignorant-American card.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste