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waaaah waaah waaah I don't wanna help people even though I can easily do so simply because the big bad gov't told me to waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

looks like the top ~80% paid ~80%.

will look again when i sober up.

Stealing from the rich to give to the poor is still exactly that - stealing.

How about I throw you in prison until you donate what I consider an acceptable amount?

Why do the poor think they deserve what I work for?

If the moral hazard isn't apparent, then I don't know how else to present it.

I can't find the 2000 breakdown again, I'll have to check my history when I get back home tonight, but the best example of the 2008 stat breakdowns is http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html.

Since we're talking about federal taxes, I didn't include "other" taxes in with it. State/local taxes, when combined with the federal taxes, will by necessity make the numbers less progressive. This is because states, unlike the federal government, do not have a 'captive audience.' Look at California and New York, two states losing high-income tax payers who are opting to leave those states for states with friendlier tax codes. If you look up the stats for job/population growth, you're going to see the states with heavily progressive income tax codes are losing population (Anthony Weiner's congressional district may disappear because NY lost a congressional district) while states like FL, with no income tax at all, are becoming more populous.

New York has become so desperate that it sends a tax bill to people who have moved out of the state over a decade ago (one famous example)...then audits non-residents to make them prove they're really non-residents. They also, if I'm not mistaken, levy an income tax on non-residents who work in the state (no taxation without representation, amirite?).

So I didn't include "other taxes" because I'm not discussing "other taxes." Kind of like how I don't say "wealth" when I'm really talking about "income."

Also food for thought: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304259304576375951025762400.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_h

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Do we know what the definition of 'Rich' is in relation to the 70% tax on the rich mentioned in the WSJ article? I remember Obama said it was something around 200-250K, and Joe Biden said it was around 150K... and 70% of that would be 105K, leaving the worker with 45K (before all other taxes) which is outright robbery. Hell, if we started getting that much taken from our paychecks we'd probably find lower-paying jobs.

Edit: I know the numbers aren't accurate because of the way the progressive tax system works, but 70% is still pretty high, to anyone of any income.

A prime example of the fuck you, got mine contention that I associate with most republicans. Helping out those less fortunate than us is our moral duty. If nothing else, you are helping out your fellow citizens, which is 100000% more patriotic than killing terrorists, shouting USA slogans while waving a flag, and pretty much anything else you can think of. And isn't that something the conservatives like to tout? Their so-called "Americanism"? Please, you guys speak out of both sides of your mouth so much that it is infuriating.

In regards to your analogy, taxing =/= imprisonment, but then again I am speaking to dumbasses who think healthcare for everyone = govt death panels...

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

You can't legislate morality. Hence my support of gay marriage and most abortion.

Let's pretend everyone has 'free' health care.

There are 100 people that needs a life-saving drug, of which the government only procured/afforded 90 treatments. What happens to the other 10 people? Who decides who get's the treatment and who doesn't? The patient? The doctor? Some government representative that has to balance the books each month?

This 'rationing' happens all the time in other countries... why are you so confident that it wouldn't happen here?

Those issues have encountered resistance thanks to religion, not morals.

To be human is to be moral. If you are immoral, then you, as an animal, would serve this country better as a pet, an experimental subject, or as food. I'd rather live in a country of good human beings than immoral animals thank you very much.

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

Well, we'd only be in such a situation because misers like conservatives didn't want to pay a little more so that everyone would get the treatment. But why are you so sure that we'd follow in the footsteps of another country? Are we not different from other countries?

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

How about there are 100 people that need the drug and only 60 people have it covered by their insurance and the other 40 can't afford it. What happens then?

Oh, right, they die.

There's rationing in this country. Instead of everyone being on the same playing field, however, it all matters how much money you throw at insurance companies (and if they can't find some sort of loophole to kick you off of your plan the moment you get sick).

RETIRED.
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It seems to me that when it comes to health care, the insurance companies are the problem.

Solution? Tax rich citizens.


wait.................

Solution: Instead of paying into insurance plans, people pay more taxes instead. Since rich people are enjoying some of the lowest taxes since (iirc) WWII, I think they'll be able to give a little bit more.

I saw a comic once that took a look at rich people bitching about how their world is over whenever some sort of large change to the working class happened. It was healthcare and livable wages now, it was 40 hour work weeks and the abolition of child labor back then. If I can find it, I'll post it.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Why not just regulate the insurance companies instead of sticking the rich people with the bill?

Its not just rich people. Everyone pays for everyone's healthcare.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]