Breaking News: Peaceful Protesters in DC pepper sprayed!

Tehra · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:08 pm

Yuratuhl wrote:

While you're not necessarily wrong, I think you're picking on Aestu because it's fun rather than any intention to prove a point. I'm happy that Azelma is employed. I also think that what his company does is completely and utterly useless. Why does it matter if Aestu's premises are flawed, when the entirety of what he's attacking (Azelma's business) has no value?

This is, as the higher courts say, harmless error.

I also contend that any college graduate can do what Azelma does, on the basis than any job-related skills he's got he learned during training and not at school. If memory serves, he was a business major, which is four worthless years of entry-level calculus and outmoded 90s-era economic concepts.

I contend that it's best that I post something for fun than to prove a point. We all know how that goes.

Either way, he's adaptable. Take a good long hard look at the hiring pool out there, even the best are weary.

Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:08 pm

Yuratuhl wrote:

While you're not necessarily wrong, I think you're picking on Aestu because it's fun rather than any intention to prove a point. I'm happy that Azelma is employed. I also think that what his company does is completely and utterly useless. Why does it matter if Aestu's premises are flawed, when the entirety of what he's attacking (Azelma's business) has no value?

This is, as the higher courts say, harmless error.

I also contend that any college graduate can do what Azelma does, on the basis than any job-related skills he's got he learned during training and not at school. If memory serves, he was a business major, which is four worthless years of entry-level calculus and outmoded 90s-era economic concepts.

Without value? That might be taking it too far. Over-valued? Definitely. Heading for a reconciliation? No doubt about it.

But its not even a question of "value" per se. It is a question of context, the big picture, the potential - and inevitability - for systemic change. And how that change, context, and the big picture play into some people's valuation of themselves and what they do.

As for 90s-era economic concepts, outmoded or proven just plain wrong? Case in point: The Japanese Economic Miracle(?)

Azelma · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:17 pm

Aestu wrote:

Ok, go ahead. Tell me. Tell me what you do that couldn't be done by automated software (the same software that currently does credit checks and automatic digitization and evaluation of resumes), an Indian or Chinese graduate or poor American for half your wages, and a small fee to Google.

I guess you are suggesting that automated software can get a site ranked #1 in Google? This is true, but it would also most likely get a site banned in Google, which is why it would be retarded to do so and would only be a short term gain. Again, you know nothing about it, so stop trying to pretend like you do. If you are suggesting that automated software could do everything I do on a day to day basis...that's just wrong.

Aestu wrote:

So you by your claim have what you do because...your parents were sufficiently well-to-do to afford private schooling and to pay your bills while you did unpaid internships. Is that your "hard work" and "perseverance" or just social bias in action?

First of all, it was a paid internship I had in college. My parents gave me very little help for college. I funded college mostly through scholarships and student loans. I was also an RA for a year which got me free room and board, with a tiny stipend.

Also, I guess I should mention that neither my mother nor my father have college degrees. If you knew my life, you'd know that I used to live only with my mother, who worked at McDonalds and we lived in a tiny 2 bedroom apartment in Philly with my sister. Yes, I have been very poor. And guess what? I've been on food stamps too. When I was 15 my dad asked for full custody of me to give me a better life, so I moved out to live with my father and step-mother. I've never once said that I am against social programs that help the poor...I am against those that abuse those programs, however.

Aestu wrote:

You call yourself a "CFO". You might as well call yourself the priest of a two-pew parish, or a Mexican general; it adds up to the same thing which is a "buy-in" to the cult of the free market no matter how illusory your pretense of prestige and control. A CFO of a major corporation has a million in cash socked away and influence over public and private officials. You stand unwary before the onrushing wave; your complacent economic existence is more fragile than you dare contemplate.

As for "CFO" for a small business...let me inform you; a business doesn't need to be a large corporation to have revenues that are anything but tiny. But alas, we're getting caught up with titles....something I've never much cared for. My title within the company is what it is. You asked, and I told you.

Aestu wrote:

The credit that fuels your job - college loans and credit card debt and state/federal debt for scholarships - WILL dry up within our lifetimes. Like it or not your job only exists because of the programs, policies and social values you claim to oppose.

When the credit and debt that fuels your job dries up, and when institutions outside America (publicly funded, of course) eclipse our own, what do you see yourself doing?

Do you honestly think I expect to be working in this business forever? You must really think I'm an idiot -- it's almost comical how much you underestimate and don't respect me.

I've grown tired of this internet pissing contest, Aestu. The bottom line is that you know nothing about my life, what I do, or how hard-working I may or may not be. I understand I am truly blessed to be in the position I am in. You think I don't know that? You think I don't understand that even though I've certainly dealt with hardships, and certainly been "poor" by American standards that I was still lucky as fuck to be born here and not Somalia?

It's not about money...in truth I care very little for it (as my rants about people parking fancy cars in front of restaurants should show). I think it's sad that everyone doesn't simply enjoy a lower standard of living so that even the homeless could always have a roof, food, and clothing.

Really, I was just bothered because you made so many assumptions about my character without any of the facts. However, I should have accepted that this is merely part of your character.

Believe what you want about me. I know who I am and what I've accomplished. I am not arrogant about it, which is why I haven't even shared this information on this board until now. Believe me, all of us on this board were born lucky in some form or another...but that doesn't mean that we aren't hardworking, intelligent, or skilled.

Yuratuhl wrote:

I also contend that any college graduate can do what Azelma does, on the basis than any job-related skills he's got he learned during training and not at school. If memory serves, he was a business major, which is four worthless years of entry-level calculus and outmoded 90s-era economic concepts.

Let me just say that my business education in college was a complete waste of time and that I learned more actually DOING than I ever did in college. I only got the degree because it's a piece of paper that says "You need to pay me more." Such is the scam of higher education in this country.

Battletard · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:19 pm

Azelma wrote:

Aestu wrote:

Usdk wrote:

He'll be a damn sight better than some college dropout suicide waiting to happen.
Don't ever hate on someone for success when it comes from hard work and perseverence.

Will he? Will he really?

Azelma isn't a "hard worker" or "perseverent" by any extent of the imagination. I don't see a reason why he'd have his job over some Indian or Russian or Chinese or Greek guy willing to work twice the hours for half the wages.

There are people in this world - a lot of them - who have the skills to do what Azelma does, and would kill (literally) to get paid subsistence wages (room and board) to do it.

Azelma gets paid enough to go on dates, buy pot, video games, concerts, etc. You're a fool if you don't realize that there a lot of people who can and would - and someday will - do that same job without any of those perks.

Tell me Aestu, since you seem to know everything about me, right down to my work ethic (or lack thereof), what do I do, exactly?

Not that I question your work ethic or qualifications for your position, but isn't that what you just claimed to know about most low level American workers?

Yuratuhl · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:24 pm

Azelma wrote:

Yuratuhl wrote:

I also contend that any college graduate can do what Azelma does, on the basis than any job-related skills he's got he learned during training and not at school. If memory serves, he was a business major, which is four worthless years of entry-level calculus and outmoded 90s-era economic concepts.

Let me just say that my business education in college was a complete waste of time and that I learned more actually DOING than I ever did in college. I only got the degree because it's a piece of paper that says "You need to pay me more." Such is the scam of higher education in this country.

So you agree that those "art history majors" moping at Occupy Wall Street are in fact every bit as qualified as you, and that as such, they should "accept their lot in life" by replacing you at your job.

mazeltov · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:27 pm

Azelma wrote:

Let me just say that my business education in college was a complete waste of time and that I learned more actually DOING than I ever did in college. I only got the degree because it's a piece of paper that says "You need to pay me more." Such is the scam of higher education in this country.

I think this is kinda funny and for the first time ever I liked a post of yours until this part. You think college is a scam yet your business revolves around the very thing you think is worthless. If you think higher education in the U.S is a scam why on earth would you promote/advertise it (this is what I gathered from "connecting students to online colleges"). The rest of your post was actually well written and seems to be a message of your true character, this last paragraph though is bugging me. If your job is simply a way to make ends meet can you truly be proud/happy?

Azelma · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:36 pm

Yuratuhl wrote:

So you agree that those "art history majors" moping at Occupy Wall Street are in fact every bit as qualified as you, and that as such, they should "accept their lot in life" by replacing you at your job.

Battletard wrote:

Not that I question your work ethic or qualifications for your position, but isn't that what you just claimed to know about most low level American workers?

No, I don't doubt that an art history major could be a very hard worker. Truthfully, I was being harsh. I guess I was saying an art history major shouldn't be surprised and angry about not having a job, or having a low paying job, when they went to school for the things that they did.

Life isn't fair. Capitalism isn't fair. It's all a rat race. And yes, I'm sure with time and training, a reasonably intelligent art history major COULD do my job. Again, I don't have any lofty view of myself...I only balk when it is suggested that I haven't worked hard for what I have, or that I'm a complete moron.

Believe me, I want it to be fair...you guys have no idea how badly I want it to be fair. I think the world would be a much, much better place if it were. But it's not...these are the rules that have been set up by society, business, government...whatever. You gotta play the game if you want to survive.

Again, I applaud the protesters for standing up to the injustices that exist...but the defeatist in me knows that they won't be successful this time around because of a lack of clear vision and enough support.

If they want to cause change, they have to play the game and then cause change within it. I plan on being relatively wealthy if I continue on my current path. With wealth comes power. With power, you can actually make a dent. This is my ultimate goal. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

mazeltov wrote:

I think this is kinda funny and for the first time ever I liked a post of yours until this part. You think college is a scam yet your business revolves around the very thing you think is worthless. If you think higher education in the U.S is a scam why on earth would you promote/advertise it (this is what I gathered from "connecting students to online colleges"). The rest of your post was actually well written and seems to be a message of your true character, this last paragraph though is bugging me. If your job is simply a way to make ends meet can you truly be proud/happy?

I'm not happy - yet. I don't want to be in this business. Truthfully I find finance and accounting to be dreadfully boring...but I consider it a necessary evil to get where I really want to go. Also let me say that I think my business does good because it gives others (specifically those of lower socio-economic backgrounds) the opportunity to get their piece of paper so that corporations have to pay them more.

"Don't Hate The Playa/Playette Hate The Game" -

Do not fault the successful participant in a flawed system; try instead to discern and rebuke that aspect of its organization which allows or encourages the behavior that has provoked your displeasure.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... e+The+Game

Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:38 pm

But at the beginning of the dialogue, you ridiculed them for expecting business ("the system") to produce jobs and "failing to adapt" to a system you admit is broken.

Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:41 pm

Aestu wrote:

But at the beginning of the dialogue, you ridiculed them for expecting business ("the system") to produce jobs and "failing to adapt" to a system you admit is broken.

Azelma wrote:

If they want to cause change, they have to play the game and then cause change within it. I plan on being relatively wealthy if I continue on my current path. With wealth comes power. With power, you can actually make a dent. This is my ultimate goal. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Oh, really? Would that be your advice to the Bastille rioters or poor Caesarians? Or to the supporters of the Bolsheviks - just do what the Czar says and all will be well?

What makes you so sure? As we pointed out, you're on shaky ground...hence my point that what is really driving your views is that "buy-in".

Azelma · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:45 pm

Aestu wrote:

But at the beginning of the dialogue, you ridiculed them for expecting business ("the system") to produce jobs and "failing to adapt" to a system you admit is broken.

The system does produce jobs (although clearly not enough). I rebuke them because if they are smart, and industrious, they sure as hell can get hired. I don't accept that it's impossible for them to find a way to live, or find a way to make money.

That's another thing you wrongly assumed about me. I guarantee that if I got fired today, or something terrible happened and I lost all my worldly possessions, I would do whatever it took to get back on my feet again (short of sucking dicks in a back alley).

We live in a society that cries too much.

Yes, the system is unfair. Yeah, some of us get a really fucking shitty hand. It sucks, and we should try to help those that life shits on. But if you've got a brain, hands, legs, and air in your lungs...you need to man the fuck up and figure out how to play the game.

Aestu wrote:

Oh, really? Would that be your advice to the Bastille rioters or poor Caesarians? Or to the supporters of the Bolsheviks - just do what the Czar says and all will be well?

Do what the Czar says until you get enough power and he gets complacent enough that you can overthrow his tyrant ass.

mazeltov · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:47 pm

Azelma wrote:

I'm not happy - yet. I don't want to be in this business. Truthfully I find finance and accounting to be dreadfully boring...but I consider it a necessary evil to get where I really want to go. Also let me say that I think my business does good because it gives others (specifically those of lower socio-economic backgrounds) the opportunity to get their piece of paper so that corporations have to pay them more.

It's my understanding that a lot of online/for-profit colleges/universities are the worst of all scams in that they load students with huge amounts of debt only to give them a degree that many employers find worthless. One example that comes to mind are the online programs to become things such as a medical assistant/nurse and offer the bare minimum in hands on training (something that is probably pretty important in a medical field.

Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:53 pm

Azelma wrote:

The system does produce jobs (although clearly not enough). I rebuke them because if they are smart, and industrious, they sure as hell can get hired. I don't accept that it's impossible for them to find a way to live, or find a way to make money.

That's another thing you wrongly assumed about me. I guarantee that if I got fired today, or something terrible happened and I lost all my worldly possessions, I would do whatever it took to get back on my feet again (short of sucking dicks in a back alley).

We live in a society that cries too much.

Yes, the system is unfair. Yeah, some of us get a really fucking shitty hand. It sucks, and we should try to help those that life shits on. But if you've got a brain, hands, legs, and air in your lungs...you need to man the fuck up and figure out how to play the game.

What makes you think you are so much stronger than the millions of mere mortals in this country who can't?

Azelma wrote:

Aestu wrote:

Oh, really? Would that be your advice to the Bastille rioters or poor Caesarians? Or to the supporters of the Bolsheviks - just do what the Czar says and all will be well?

Do what the Czar says until you get enough power and he gets complacent enough that you can overthrow his tyrant ass.

Uh huh. Is that what happened? Is that what anyone did in those situations?

Azelma · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:57 pm

mazeltov wrote:

Azelma wrote:

I'm not happy - yet. I don't want to be in this business. Truthfully I find finance and accounting to be dreadfully boring...but I consider it a necessary evil to get where I really want to go. Also let me say that I think my business does good because it gives others (specifically those of lower socio-economic backgrounds) the opportunity to get their piece of paper so that corporations have to pay them more.

It's my understanding that a lot of online/for-profit colleges/universities are the worst of all scams in that they load students with huge amounts of debt only to give them a degree that many employers find worthless. One example that comes to mind are the online programs to become things such as a medical assistant/nurse and offer the bare minimum in hands on training (something that is probably pretty important in a medical field.

That's very true. Some of these for profit colleges are extremely aggressive in their recruiting, make wild promises about what degrees will earn you in salary, and then do nothing when students rack up debt only to drop out. I hope the government brings the hammer down on such offenders (they've already been working on legislation to punish schools whose graduates don't meet certain job placement/loan repayment percentages). My company works with both for-profit and non-profit universities.

Many of the degrees are very worthwhile. We do a lot of work in the medical field (nursing bridge programs), and we also do a lot of work with masters programs, which are typically much higher value and respected amongst employers, with significantly lower loan default rates and so on.

I can't speak to the amount of training online medical programs provide since I've never taken one, but I know they do have many clinical requirements. Also, graduates are able to pass all the various licensing exams...so they can't be teaching them nothing.

Aestu wrote:

What makes you think you are so much stronger than the millions of mere mortals in this country who can't?

Aestu wrote:

Because irrational attitudes often have an evolutionary advantage. Once you realize this, all doubts vanish.

Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:59 pm

So because you are you, you are automatically better than all individuals in your position. Got it.

Azelma · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:02 pm

Aestu wrote:

So because you are you, you are automatically better than all individuals in your position. Got it.

I never said I was better than anyone. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I just said I am confident in my abilities to get a job, no matter how the odds were stacked against me, and so I know I could get one if the need arose.

(Possibly Irrational) Self-confidence and arrogance are two entirely different things, Ethan. I wonder which people would be more likely to attribute to you?

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