Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

I think you're confusing our layman's knowledge with our skepticism that things like "hate-crimes" laws aren't seriously misapplied. I look at prosecutors with a wary eye. There are a few too many Mike Nifongs out there...which is not surprising given that in most states prosecutors are protected from civil liability even when they purposely behave unethically/immorally/illegally in order to score convictions.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

For me, it's being morally opposed to the idea that one human life is more or less valuable than another.

Also known as equality. I agree though, reverse racism and white guilt should trump true equality any day.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

Driving 56 miles in a 55 I get into an accident and another motorist dies. I've broken the law and killed someone.

I abduct a 9 year old girl and murder her. I've broken the law and killed someone.

My religion forbids blood transfusions, I deny my child a transfusion and he dies. I've broken the law (child abuse) and killed someone.

While minding my own business a drunk douchebag gets in my face, an inch from my nose. I push him away and he stumbles, breaking his neck on the curb. I've broken the law and killed someone.

You're arguing that these should all be punished the same. Seeing things in black and white absolutes is moronic, the world doesn't work that way.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Driving 56 miles in a 55 I get into an accident and another motorist dies. I've broken the law and killed someone.

I abduct a 9 year old girl and murder her. I've broken the law and killed someone.

My religion forbids blood transfusions, I deny my child a transfusion and he dies. I've broken the law (child abuse) and killed someone.

While minding my own business a drunk douchebag gets in my face, an inch from my nose. I push him away and he stumbles, breaking his neck on the curb. I've broken the law and killed someone.

You're arguing that these should all be punished the same. Seeing things in black and white absolutes is moronic, the world doesn't work that way.


1) unprovable from the speed. is the wreck proven to be your fault otherwise?
2) being a 9 year old girl doesn't make it any worse than a 30 year old woman. This is the one that tard was actually talking about.
3) not sure how this is covered under the first amendment. no opinion.
4) sounds like self defense. legal?

Well 4 different murders and 4 different excuses or attempts at justifications. So much for all murder being equal!

Dvergar /
Quisling

Except that only two of those examples would constitute an actual homicide. An accident isn't murder, even if negligence of some type is a factor. There is a huge difference between adhering to religious doctrine and purposely killing someone, though the distinction is no doubt lost on anyone who doesn't understand the dangers of creating different classes of victims.

So given that you've just shown your obvious disdain for...I'm guessing your saying Jehovah's Witnesses are stupid-evil child murderers...what happens if you're driving around one morning at 56 miles an hour and hit a Jehovah's Witness as they're walking about knocking on doors? The prosecutor dredges up your opinion on their religious order from the bowels of the interwebs and charges you with a hate crime. That would be asinine, but it's the door that is opened with those kinds of laws.

You do realize that you can be opposed to racism and such without actually supporting every stupid idea that is proposed in the name of being opposed to racism (and such), don't you?

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Fucking THIS.

Ask yourself if it's fundamentally in the best interests of promoting equality to have unequal footing in terms of who is held responsible to a higher degree over others for the same crime?

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

I posted 4 different cases where criminal behavior caused death, they were all choices made by the perpetrators. Now you're claiming that intent matters after gas-bagging all over the thread about right and wrong, now you want to play semantics and choose who's life is more valuable depending on the intent of their killers.

hypocrits.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Driving at 56 mph is hardly "criminal" behavior, and not only would it be incredibly doubtful that you get a ticket for it, if you did, the average traffic judge would probably toss the ticket if you appeared in court. Negligence=/=intent, which is what you're arguing about here, and isn't a valid comparison.

Allowing yourself or your minor child to die by refusing standard medical treatment isn't "criminal," either, because it's not illegal to choose to adhere to your religion (in most cases) as opposed to accepting treatment. This is leaving aside the fact that allowing something to happen is not the same as causing it to happen. This is also not examining the matter as it relates to euthanasia, which many (especially liberal) people regard as being a choice it would be acceptable for an individual to make were it legal.

We do not judge and pass sentence on all crimes in the same manner, and intent does figure into that, but before the notion of "hate crimes" came into play, in those cases where intent was taken into account in sentencing, it was considered in order to judiciously grant leniency, not to apply a harsher sentence. There is a big difference between that and what you're suggesting, and I see no hypocrisy in noting that difference. I'm still trying to puzzle out how you complain about people arguing against seeing things in "only black and white" while providing 'examples' that are starkly black and white while at the same time telling those people they're hypocrites. I are confuse by your tactics.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Moronic? Hardly. I don't necessarily buy the argument that murder or other crimes should be taken in factual absolutes but the argument itself is definitely tenable. Agree or disagree, it can't be dismissed out-of-hand except within the confines of our current legal system.

Besides, by lumping all hate crimes together regardless of degree of motive, isn't that what you're doing, seeing the issue in black and white?

EDIT: You need to stop with the condescending vitriol. Playing PC by denigrating anyone who doesn't accept your values/assumptions/dogma at face value may work on a college campus or with an audience of mostly like-minded people, but when you actually have to convince people, take part in a discussion on a level playing field, it weakens your argument and undermines your credibility.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I'm not sure "I have no opinion" is an attempt at a justification.

There's a big difference between killing someone on accident, killing someone on purpose. the speeding/car wreck one would be what, manslaughter at absolute worst? the killing the girl one obviously is murder, but it doesn't do anything to disprove the opinion that we have of each life being equal to another(or at least each murderer should have an equal punishment.) If anything, it just shows that YOU hold certain lives to be more important than others. as for the jehovah's witness deal, I don't think refusing treatment on religious grounds is anything remotely close to murder. Foolish, but not murderous. And of course self defense isn't murder.

I don't see how I'm being hypocritical in this. Would you care to explain?

I really like how you compared parents letting their children die to euthanasia, because allowing someone who wants to die do so is exactly the same as allowing a child to die simply because you think that Jesus would get mad if you used medicine.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Patria potestas.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

This is one of the points you're trying to make in this thread, but it's pretty substantially undermined by another of your opinions; that intent matters when it comes to the punishment of one person causing the death of another. You're arguing for different punishments based on the act, then turning around and arguing against hate crimes because life should be the same value regardless of the act.

You're trying to lump a hate crime in with murder, when you should be seeing it as a classification just like first and second degrees, manslaughter and self-defense.



If you choose to let your child die when a simple medical operation that you have access to can save their life, you're a murderer.



pro-life!*

*not applicable post-birth



Hahahahahahahahaha, oh that's good.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Because the examples you used are all bogus.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming