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 Post subject: Re: taking bets
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm  
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French Faggot
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Battletard wrote:
Would the War Powers Resolution require him to declare war? Not that I give a shit or think Obama did anything wrong by authorizing use of our fighters in a no-fly zone, merely playing devil's advocate.


Doesn't require him to do anything until 60 days have passed, at which point he gets 30 more days to withdraw. After that, Congress is supposed to vote on war.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
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 Post subject: Re: taking bets
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:44 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Yuratuhl wrote:
Battletard wrote:
Would the War Powers Resolution require him to declare war? Not that I give a shit or think Obama did anything wrong by authorizing use of our fighters in a no-fly zone, merely playing devil's advocate.


Doesn't require him to do anything until 60 days have passed, at which point he gets 30 more days to withdraw. After that, Congress is supposed to vote on war.

I think you're half-right. He's allowed to send troops into battle and he has to act according to the timeline that you mentioned; however, according to the summary at the Library of Congress Online for Public Law 93-148, the president must "...in every possible instance consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement is clearly indicated by the circumstances." Also, "...in any case in which the Armed Forces of the United States are introduced in hostilities, or in situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, such use of the Armed Forces of the United States in hostilities pursuant to this Act shall be reported within 48 hours in writing by the President to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate, together with a full account of the circumstances under which such hostilities were initiated, the estimated scope and duration of such hostilities, and the constitutional and legislative authority under which the introduction of hostilities took place." I don't think the President met with Congress prior to committing our military to Libya. Additionally, based on Speaker Bohner's letter to the President, it sounds as if the details of the military action in Libya weren't sent to Congress.

Furthermore, the UN Resolution doesn't usurp the US Constitution/Law, so legally, the President can't use the military in such a manner without consulting Congress first... right?
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 Post subject: Re: taking bets
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:39 pm  
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French Faggot
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Eturnalshift wrote:
He's allowed to send troops into battle and he has to act according to the timeline that you mentioned; however, according to the summary at the Library of Congress Online for Public Law 93-148, the president must "...in every possible instance consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement is clearly indicated by the circumstances."


The problem with the Consultation clause is that it effectively leaves it to the president's discretion what constitutes a "possible instance" during which to consult. The fact that the next statute is so much more comprehensive means the people writing the bill realized they had to keep this as vague as possible so that it would give the president pause, but not make it so demanding that it gets struck down as impinging the president's authority as commander-in-chief of all the armed forces. In short, that section was written to be ignored and all the teeth of the resolution are in the next statute.

Eturnalshift wrote:
Also, "...in any case in which the Armed Forces of the United States are introduced in hostilities, or in situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, such use of the Armed Forces of the United States in hostilities pursuant to this Act shall be reported within 48 hours in writing by the President to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate, together with a full account of the circumstances under which such hostilities were initiated, the estimated scope and duration of such hostilities, and the constitutional and legislative authority under which the introduction of hostilities took place." I don't think the President met with Congress prior to committing our military to Libya. Additionally, based on Speaker Bohner's letter to the President, it sounds as if the details of the military action in Libya weren't sent to Congress.


This is the bit that matters. Once the president goes in, he has to mention it to the relevant parties within 48 hours. He doesn't have to mention it beforehand, for the reasons I listed above. Once the initial report has been received, regardless of what Congress thinks or wants to do, the 60 day period begins to run. It cannot be shortened, though it can of course be prolonged following either a declaration of war or other Congressional override (or if Congress is destroyed, rofl). I don't actually know the timeline that followed the initial action in this case, so maybe Bohner got his letter a few hours late. It's not really clear from that letter if that's even one of the complaints, but I'm addressing it anyway. In any event, the situation doesn't change and the forces can't be recalled until the 60 days have run.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
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 Post subject: Re: taking bets
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:27 pm  
Malodorous Moron
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NATO is on it apparently.
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 Post subject: Re: taking bets
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:22 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Joklem wrote:
NATO is on it apparently.


Yeah, it's gonna go to shit. NATO is terrible.

Oh well, at least my taxes won't be funding it...most of it anyway >.>


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