Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

I Has a Bucket: Preventing bucket theft on Bleeding Hollow | FUBU: A better BH Forum
It is currently Thu Jul 10, 2025 4:47 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:18 pm  
User avatar

Fat Bottomed Faggot
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:53 pm
Posts: 4251
Location: Minnesota
Offline

Jubbergun wrote:
Or maybe the world is just a crazy fucking place we have relatively little knowledge about and wacky shit like that just happens.

It's either that, or Cthulu.

Your Pal,
Jubber


Cthulu be responsible for things like Schizophrenia and Delirium.


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:21 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Eturnalshift wrote:
Yep. I learned that some person isn't willing to dismiss the possibility of HIV being human-manufactured despite there being little or no evidence to suggest that... which is funny, since that same person is the one that vehemently denounce the possibility of a God because there's little or no evidence to suggest he exists.


As has been said, the typical approach with germ warfare is not to create new and original bugs but simply to weaponize existing ones. "Weaponize" does not mean "make it into a bomb" but simply to deliver it to the target population. And that has occured, whether by human design or accident.

Your analogy between the origin of AIDS and the existence of God is faulty because in the case of the former, we know exactly where "God" came from (and thus have a rational basis upon which to conclusively dismiss that explanation) and because there isn't a rational reason to believe that God created the universe, nor any empirical evidence that would corroborate the existence of God.

In the case of AIDS, however, we know that there were well-funded scientific efforts to harm, oppress and eradicate these people, and we lack sufficient evidence to either discredit this explanation out of hand, nor sufficient evidence to conclusively affirm other theories. Because known facts corroborate such a hypothesis short of confirming it, there is not reason to dismiss the possibility.

Like I said, like Azelma, I don't necessarily believe that's what happened, but I don't think the possibility can be dismissed, either.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:33 pm  
Blathering Buffoon
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 1152
Offline

The only thing you have to refute anything that has been said is "people don't like some of the victims". Given that there was a massive difference between the social standards and actions of homosexuals between the 1950s and 1980s, it wouldn't make sense to introduce the very same virus you introduced in order to spread and kill the heterosexual Africans. You would have no guarantee and no way to stop the virus if it spread amongst heterosexuals everywhere like it did in Africa (which you have no reason to believe it wouldn't).

I would suggest you go back and re-read Eturnal's aids-alien theory, because it's got about the same about of possibility as your engineered-virus theory.


Dvergar /
Quisling
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:44 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Dvergar wrote:
The only thing you have to refute anything that has been said is "people don't like some of the victims". Given that there was a massive difference between the social standards and actions of homosexuals between the 1950s and 1980s, it wouldn't make sense to introduce the very same virus you introduced in order to spread and kill the heterosexual Africans. You would have no guarantee and no way to stop the virus if it spread amongst heterosexuals everywhere like it did in Africa (which you have no reason to believe it wouldn't).

I would suggest you go back and re-read Eturnal's aids-alien theory, because it's got about the same about of possibility as your engineered-virus theory.


You're doing what I see you do a lot, which is whittling down or reconceiving others' positions to suit your own biases, and in the process, discarding the elements of others' positions that have substance, so that those positions vacillate in favor of your own viewpoints.

Scientists did criminal experiments with radiation and toxic/psychoactive chemicals on disadvantaged populations. There were programs in place to sterilize these people, and they would have been expanded if not so repugnant that the general population would have objected. There were all sorts of oppressive covert activities going on at the time - surveillance, entrapment, etc. You can't say there's absolutely nothing there - that there weren't well-heeled and determined institutions that had federal money out to get these people.

Hell, back then, homosexuality was listed as a psychopathology. You can't argue that the scientific community was in the humanitarian camp.

You're absolutely right that there's no guarantee that such diseases would remain contained. But the possibility of collateral damage hasn't stopped a lot of foolish human endeavours, has it? Mustard gas could blow back on the very troops that used it (and often did). The bombs dropped on Japan killed hundreds of Americans, too - many of the people who helped build it, refining the yellowcake and working with other dangerous materials they weren't adequately informed about, and inhaled the lethal particulates. And even today our troops use U-238 bullets which are dangerous even to the wielder, to say nothing of the horrible effects caused by long-term exposure to the spent ammunition.

But then again, maybe that was the point - to discourage bigamy and promote the ostracism of gays? How is it that this disease just happened to emerge seemingly everywhere at once amongst these populations - not merely in a specific geographic region? As you noted, AIDS isn't particularly virulent, and the rate of transmission is actually quite low.

If institutions were willing to secretly do the kind of horrendous things they did at the time, and still haven't fessed up to the extent of what is already known, how can you discount that other activities didn't take place, when the related occurrences haven't been fully explained?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:56 pm  
Blathering Buffoon
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 1152
Offline

Quote:
You're doing what I see you do a lot, which is whittling down or reconceiving others' positions to suit your own biases


I'll stop dismissing irrelevant portions of your arguments when you start addressing the issues discussed instead of going off on a tangent.


Dvergar /
Quisling
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:07 pm  
User avatar

Obama Zombie
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:48 pm
Posts: 3149
Location: NoVA
Offline

Holy fuck. China manufactured and spread the Black Plague to Europe during the middle ages because the Chinese were jealous of the European non-squint. The Chinese figured if they can't open their eyes all the way then neither can the Europeans! Secretly, a covenant in the early 1900s, by the name of Rovio, started plotting revenge by manipulating the Influenze virus to spread via birds. After decades of effort, the Avian Flu was finally created and sent over to Asia! The Mexican Drug Cartels bought the blue-prints from Rovio and made the Swine Flu which was going to be used against the United States as retaliation for the War on Drugs. Unfortunately for Mexico, in 2009, Guadlupe dropped a canister of Swine Flu and it started spreading in Mexico. While we were laughing, so was Rovio, as they were developing an Angry Birds app which was to be distributed via asian-made mobile devices.

Angry Birds fight Angry Pigs.
Birds and Pigs have manufactured flus.

CONSPIRACIES ABOUND HOLTFUCKT!?!
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:12 pm  
User avatar

Old Conservative Faggot
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4308
Location: Winchester Virginia
Offline

U-238 is not that serious a radiological hazard. It's dangerous because, like Mercury, it's chemically toxic. It is only used in for very specialized purposes, and most servicemen are unlikely ever to see a depleted uranium round. Most of the time, they're reserved for use in munitions designed to pierce armor or penetrate hardened facilities.

Given the evidence that the virus existed during a period when it would have been improbable for it to have been engineered, the manner in it which it is primarily transmitted, and the pointlessness of committing genocide on people who routinely find new and inventive ways to remove themselves from the gene-pool, it is highly unlikely that there was any intentional human contribution to the development and distribution of the disease.

Your Pal,
Jubber


AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:17 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Dvergar wrote:
I'll stop dismissing irrelevant portions of your arguments when you start addressing the issues discussed instead of going off on a tangent.


If the validity of your rebuttal vacillates when those portions are disregarded, clearly they are not irrelevant.

Falsehood by omission is a classic means of mistruth.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:20 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Jubbergun wrote:
U-238 is not that serious a radiological hazard. It's dangerous because, like Mercury, it's chemically toxic. It is only used in for very specialized purposes, and most servicemen are unlikely ever to see a depleted uranium round. Most of the time, they're reserved for use in munitions designed to pierce armor or penetrate hardened facilities.


True, but there's still been long-term pollution attributable to the ammo. And that hasn't stopped its use.

Jubbergun wrote:
Given the evidence that the virus existed during a period when it would have been improbable for it to have been engineered, the manner in it which it is primarily transmitted, and the pointlessness of committing genocide on people who routinely find new and inventive ways to remove themselves from the gene-pool, it is highly unlikely that there was any intentional human contribution to the development and distribution of the disease.


This is the best rebuttal. But "improbable" does not equate to "impossible". And like I said, perhaps genocide wasn't the goal.

And again - I don't necessarily believe the AIDS epidemic was by design. I simply don't believe that possibility can be ruled out.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:22 pm  
User avatar

Pinheaded Pissant
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:29 pm
Posts: 1515
Location: Boston, MA
Offline

Oooo, fun monkey disease!



Image

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:25 pm  
User avatar

Old Conservative Faggot
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4308
Location: Winchester Virginia
Offline

Aestu wrote:
True, but there's still been long-term pollution attributable to the ammo. And that hasn't stopped its use.

That's bound to happen with anything that doesn't break down very well chemically.

Aestu wrote:
And again - I don't necessarily believe that you boned the shit out of Scarlett Johanssen. I simply don't believe that possibility can be ruled out.

Just to demonstrate how ridiculous that really is.

Your Pal,
Jubber


AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:26 pm  
User avatar

Obtuse Oaf
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:46 pm
Posts: 776
Location: Ontario
Offline

Aestu wrote:
And again - I don't necessarily believe the AIDS epidemic was by design. I simply don't believe that possibility can be ruled out.


That's a fair point, but as Eturnal pointed out you can't rule out the alien origin hypothesis either. It may be somewhat less probable, but either way you're dealing with highly unlikely scenarios.


Laelia Komi Anomalocaris
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:38 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Laelia wrote:
That's a fair point, but as Eturnal pointed out you can't rule out the alien origin hypothesis either. It may be somewhat less probable, but either way you're dealing with highly unlikely scenarios.


It's a false analogy because there are no facts to corroborate the alien hypothesis, nothing to suggest that might be the case. There are facts to corroborate the hypothesis the epidemic was engineered - similar acts done in the past, and parties interested in and potentially capable of such a feat.

Jubbergun wrote:
That's bound to happen with anything that doesn't break down very well chemically.


PVC doesn't kill people. French and Germans aren't getting mass sickness from spent rounds used during the World Wars.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:40 pm  
User avatar

Old Conservative Faggot
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 am
Posts: 4308
Location: Winchester Virginia
Offline

That's no more evidence than stories from dumb hillbillies claiming to have been anally violated.

PVC isn't chemically toxic, therefore your analogy is invalid.

Your Pal,
Jubber


AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: hrm...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:51 pm  
Blathering Buffoon
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:12 am
Posts: 1152
Offline

Except that it wasn't done in the past, viruses weren't engineered in 1959. You're at a problem with who would create it, the people who could wouldn't waste it on infecting out Africans and the people who would want to didn't have the capability. You can keep making up stories about how it might have happened but they're no more likely than the aliens.


Dvergar /
Quisling
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

World of Warcraft phpBB template "WoWMoonclaw" created by MAËVAH (ex-MOONCLAW) (v3.0.8.0) - wowcr.net : World of Warcraft styles & videos
© World of Warcraft and Blizzard Entertainment are trademarks or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. in the U.S. and/or other countries. wowcr.net is in no way associated with Blizzard Entertainment.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group