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Have you ever bought alcohol before ever? Serious question.


Don't flatter yourself. It was actually asking a bunch of stupid questions while posting a retarded image. All he needed was a multi-paragraph rant about some obscure thing in history and he's you.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

To be fair, Aestu generally doesn't do the stupid meme/image thing.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Its usually just a stock image of something with no text to humor himself.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

The Odyssey is not a secondary source.



I would agree - but problem is that those regulatory schemes don't apply to pot because what makes them viable is the fact that tobacco and alcohol are labor intensive and have inherent consequences for overdosing.

And frankly, even I don't trust the regulatory system with something as potentially significant as corporations working with THC.



This is the single fundamental premise of the pot argument (and libertarianism in general) that runs counter to my entire way of thinking.

Individual choices don't take place in a vacuum, and their consequences can't be ignored. Letting people die in a corner (or rely on charity) isn't a realistic solution to social problems. Neither is letting weed and its effects loose on society and hoping it all works itself out somehow.

Let's turn this around though - why is there a black market for weed? Why isn't there a black market for say, lead-based paint or gasoline, or incandescent lightbulbs, or thalidomide, or any other illegal good? Why is there this need for weed that is so strong that people are willing to risk jail over it?



Not significantly.

Do you disagree with the contention? Serious question.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Yeah I never said it wasn't though. I used "toxic" in reference to feelings of apathy......Mayo must have failed at some basic reading comprehension there.



You told me to "stop being retarded" Okay...so what was it that I said in this post: viewtopic.php?p=148500#p148500 that was incorrect or stupid?

Why won't you answer?

Agreed. His argument thrashing wildly in the water has begun to bore me.

And just in case anyone is confused *cough* Mayo *cough*

Alcohol is more toxic and harmful than weed in almost every sense.
Still...being a lazy apathetic person and sitting at home all day smoking grass isn't a good thing (as Aestu points out)


Bottom line though, if Alcohol is legal, weed should be. Anyone who disagrees has either never smoked or simply being stupid. Sorry Aestu.

You can't claim that smoking weed causes you to sit at home and do nothing.

Just because two sets of data are related, does not imply causality.

My first answer was "Good question."

What business is it of mine if someone wants do something with or to themselves? Until there becomes a significant risk to someone else, it's not the business of anybody else.

But you don't make arguments like that. Ever.

My best guess at the point was that drinking paint is legal because it doesn't need to be illegal since nobody does it and hence it doesn't cause problems for society. Then that logic was being applied, at a different degree, to alcohol and marijuana. Basically alcohol doesn't need to be illegal because it doesn't cause nearly the problems (or likely problems caused by it's prohibition outweighed benefits) that marijuana would if it were also legal.

But that just made me go "wat".

I'm trying to wrap my head around this though. No alcohol ban, because it's price and side effects persuades the average joe from daily overconsumption. Marijuana needs to be banned because it would be plentiful, cheap, and with little side effects. Then shouldn't alcohol be banned, raising it's price, thus neutralizing the problems it does create even further?

You're right. It's not a "source" at all. It's a fictional story, and it's ridiculous for someone constantly crying about other people's perspectives being based in popular fantasies attempting to cite it as a credible source of information.



I've never heard of anyone overdosing on tobacco, and it's not expensive to grow nor does it take any more significant labor/equipment resources than any other crop. As someone who routinely brews their own beer, I can tell you that it doesn't break the bank to produce booze, either. I can brew five gallons of good quality beer for about $40. I could probably do it for half that price if I decided to use adjuncts like rice or shitty ingredients (livestock feed, for example, which a lot of "moonshiners" use to to produce their base malts for distillation).



That "regulatory system" is the government, and I think it's strange that you don't believe you can trust the government with something as "potentially significant" as regulating cannabis (and Dear God, that's a very libertarian-sounding argument) but you're one of the people on these boards constantly squealing about how we should nationalize healthcare, which is something that is actually significant as opposed to potentially significant, and let the government run that sector of our economy.



The premise isn't that we encourage people to curl up and die in a corner because they've chosen to destroy themselves, the premise is that there are going to be those people we'll realistically never be able to help, and creating larger problems for the sake of attempting to save them anyway is unwise. We're not stopping any of those people from killing themselves now, there's no excuse for leaving in place a system that already fails to save them when it carries the cost of creating and/or encouraging violent criminal enterprise.



There's a black market for cannabis because people want it and can't obtain it any other way. There is no market for lead-based paint or gasoline because those items are either legal or there's an acceptable legal alternative that is cheaper than buying it from a black market. You may see a pseudo-black market for incandescent bulbs in the near future, because there will be people who prefer them to the new bulb types (especially people who love their dimmer switches and have difficulty making them work with the new bulbs) and will buy them from anyone who still has them available regardless of the cost. No one has to buy thalidomide on the black market because it's still in use for cancer treatment.

The "need for weed" isn't the factor motivating people to risk jail for it. Most of the people facing jail time for cannabis are dealers, and their primary incentive is that they can turn a significant profit on a cheap weed with little or no effort. The risk of jail time is just one of the costs of doing business, a risk they find acceptable due to their profit margins.



Booze isn't expensive. Just look at the "chilled wines" at 7-11 if you don't believe it. A bottle of Wild Irish Rose or Mad Dog isn't going to set you back very much. You can get a six back of Schlitz or other cheap beer for about $2. It doesn't take a lot of panhandling for a homeless person to get enough together for a buzz.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

I have been making that argument this entire thread. Mass apathy is a dangerous social force. Freedom, democracy and human dignity will go down the tubes fast when people can just do weed and feel good.



It's not because they're "related". The relationship is casual. People strive to change things because they feel the urge to do so. Weed removes that urge at no cost.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Agreed...but I didn't say it directly causes it.

I said it can contribute to it.

I say this having personally experienced an apathetic pothead lifestyle (of course you can be a productive pothead too). That kind of lifestyle is more prevalent in pot users.

If you knew anything (as in, a single thing) about buying alcohol, you would know that you can take the bus across the river, go to Party Source in Covington, and pick up a 750ml bottle of Everclear for around $15. That bottle of everclear can be turned into ~17 shots, which each shot being 190 proof alcohol. You can get an equivalent of 5 shots of hard liquor (2 shots of everclear) for about $1.76.

Being a drunk on the cheap is pretty easy. You can get retarded for an entire three-day weekend on $15 if you get a case of Natty or Keystone (and that's drinking 10 beers a day, which is pretty excessive). Its way cheaper than weed, especially since when I smoked, everyone with a tolerance was preferring the higher quality shit over brown frown.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

The Odyssey is a source in the same sense black and white movies are a source. The Odyssey doesn't accurately represent the world of the Mycenaean Dark Age any more than a B&W movie represents the world of however long ago. What both do accurately represent is the same things those movies represent: a dead culture's ways of thinking and assumptions about the world.

If you watched a movie from 50 years ago, you might assume there were no black people and no one ever had sex. Likewise, if you read the Homeric Hymns, you might assume every disgruntled peasant is a Thersites (a stupid and physically ugly malcontent), every woman raped by invaders was a Briseis (who thought being abducted and held as a concubine was just awesome), and that armies were all noble and honorable when they raided whatever villages happened to have the misfortune to be near their staging area for food and supplies (something that, like sex in old movies, is mentioned in vague euphemistic terms but never actually shown on screen).

We can't get an accurate picture of the sex lives of people a century ago, or the daily welfare of the average peasant three thousand years ago, by listening to their stories. What we can get is an reasonably accurate picture of their value system.



Tobacco is not escapist in the sense alcohol or weed are.



I know that the government would not long be allowed to do its work unimpeded.

If people get healthcare, that's that, they can cry when they don't, let democracy do its thing. I realistically don't see a world where you see mobs outside the White House demanding breast implants and nose jobs. Uhh. Who knows. Maybe someone will read this in a century and chortle. Regardless, it seems unlikely.

But if weed is legal, how long until pressure is brought to bear to allow companies to make money on more potent concoctions?



This is a weak deterministic argument that people have been using literally forever (see: Thersites, or Gone With The Wind)



Okay, but why do they want it, why is this such a big deal?

[/quote]

Then wouldn't the more logical approach be to buff welfare?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

^Mayo,




Either tell me what I did that was retarded in the aforementioned post, or you owe me an apology for hurling an insult when you misunderstood what I wrote.