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Those credits and deductions are paid for by the government so what you are describing is a lose-lose scenario.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

What I'm saying is they aren't getting those deductions. The issue of them not paying taxes is irrelevant when those same people will turn around and claim that 50% of Americans don't pay taxes. You don't reach the middle class picking tomatoes for a dollar a day. Those immigrants still pay some taxes, they don't raise their own crops and produce all their own goods, they still pay sales taxes at the very least.

Edit: It would be a bigger loss for the government if those people were on the rolls and paying taxes, it's a win if they're illegal and only paying some taxes while not taking from the fed.

Dvergar /
Quisling

True, fair enough - they would be earning too little to pay income tax.



This is a deceptively bigoted remark.

Why should they reach middle class? The entire premise of this discussion the inability of America to accept the need for a working-class population - and the resultant stigmatization of menial labor as inherently undesirable.

Insofar as the equation is one of limited vertical mobility due to economic background, doesn't that apply to first and foremost to American citizens? This lens shouldn't apply to illegals - they aren't entitled to the institutional benefits that would enable mobility if Americans aren't getting those benefits in the here and now.

Assuming individuals of merit were assimilated into American society and were to become vertically mobile, what would be an appropriate way to ensure vertical mobility from parents that are menial laborers? What in the equation do you think should change?

EDIT: Bolded and rephrased to make the response more direct and less rhetorical.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I don't think you should benefit from being here(schools, national defense, highways, etc) if you're not legally allowed to be here.

If you want them here, change the legislation so they can more easily come here legally.

You're taking the quote entirely out of context. The middle class remark was related to the erroneous 50% claims. Illegal immigrants come here to work sub-minimum-wage jobs, even if they were on the rolls legally they wouldn't make enough to be a positive for the purpose of federal taxes. That positive point doesn't exist in the lower class, one needs to make enough to be considered middle class before they make enough that the government makes money on them, and you don't get there picking tomatoes at a dollar a day.

Dvergar /
Quisling

So, you're arguing that the budget should accept the lower classes as a net loss by taxing the rich, same way we accept that rich states subsidize poor states. I guess that makes sense.

That still leaves the question of how to reconcile the conditions averse to meritocracy and menial labor for citizens.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Try harder kid.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Did you think I was being sarcastic? I wasn't.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Awesome.

It's funny mostly because ICE has prosecutorial discretion, as of June, to worry only about the removal of potential illegals that are dangerous criminals or threats to national security.

You guys can rage all you want, but the visa-overstayers and those who entered without inspection, if they're selling you halal, running your laundromat, or fixing your roof, they're not gonna get deported. They're here illegally. They don't have work authorization. And the governmental agency tasked with dealing with them doesn't give a shit. To address every immigrant, instead of just the dangerous ones, you'd have to massively increase their budget. And that involves giving money to a governmental agency that isn't the military, which is totally unconscionable to the Republican thought process. So I guess them illegals are here to stay.

You mad?

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/ ... ocTypeID=1

Haha. Bush tax cuts round 2. We all know how much those helped HAHAHA

I'm wondering if Ron Paul is staying in the race to set up Rand for 2016. Rand has been along the campaign trail gaining name recognition and media spotlight.

Pretty sure Ron knows he can't win, and that is at least one of his objectives.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

As much as I think Ron Paul is a total fucking lunatic, at least he's not his son. I would literally vote Jubbergun for president, and I mean that sincerely, before I considered voting for Rand Paul.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

I'm all for making myself the Internet Write-In Candidate for President. You guys start my exploratory committee and get the fund-raising rolling, and I'll get my game-show host hair ready.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Its ironic because Rand would have a much better chance of getting the nom, considering he sold out all of his father's beliefs in the first half hour of the race.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]