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The cannibalism excuse is hogwash, the excuse came after the religious reasoning. It's not like JWs were initially a group of people who all thought that transfusions = cannibalism. Just own up to it, they let their kid die because god told them to.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Do you really WANT more jehovas witnesses running around?

The only Jehovah's Witnesses I've ever met (that I knew were JW) were very pleasant and nice. They came into the convenience store I worked at in high school. It was two couples, and the one guy had the worst deadpan puns. They came it around 10 every Sunday and he always had one.

Him:Watch out for that bee
Me: Uh-oh
Him: You know they did a study and found out bees suffer from allergies?
Me with a smirk: Oh yeah?
Him: Yeah, turns out they all have hives. (Takes a sip of his coffee and just walks away.)

Me: Hey how's it going?
Him: Not so good.
M: Oh what happened?
H: Well I lost my job
M: What? That's terrible.
H: Yeah I worked at an Orange Juice plant. They said I couldn't concentrate, so they canned me.


They were the most terrible, horrible jokes I ever heard and I loved it because they were so bad.

Jubber, you're not a bad person just because you're religious, but if you're willing to let your child die just because your beliefs suggest you can't give them an otherwise acceptable and readily available treatment, you're a bad person.

Dvergar /
Quisling

So I haven't read any of this thread but I'm curious since it's on page 7 now.

Have we settled the debate between murder and attempted murder?

Bolded relevant sections.

I don't like religious people either but you are an incredibly bigoted person to disdain a group of people because they crack bad jokes, or to regard the telling of bad jokes as a hallmark of moral inferiority.

It is bigoted and small-minded to think that another culture is less worthy than your own because you perceive their otherwise benign humor as less witty.

You're also dense and ignorant to fail to realize that allergies are caused by immune dysfunction; since all forms of life have immune systems, it is logical to conclude that all animals have the potential to develop allergies. Since you had not heard the punchline and therefore did not realize he was telling a joke at that point in the dialogue, the implication is that your bigotry caused you to smugly close your mind to whatever "study" he was about to cite.

If it was popular to hate black people, you'd be talking about the science behind the pencil test.

Ultimately, that is the only reason you disdain these people - because you feel it is socially acceptable to make them an object for your morally evil drives. I mean isn't that what you're saying? You "loved it" because "it was so bad". It feels good to be able to tear people down for purely arbitrary reasons, because you can. That is bigotry.

Mindset, not beliefs, is what separates bigots and enlightened people.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

No.

But that's because people seem to think that all attempted murder cases occur because one person was actively trying to kill another. States have mandatory minimums for murder (most often life for first degree and 25-40ish for second degree), but attempted seems to be at the discretion of the judge. If attempted were only to be used in cases where one person were actually trying to kill another such harsh sentences would be warranted, but that's not always the case. Attempted murder is very subjective, a fist fight is not an indication of a desire to kill, but fist fights can and have ended with the death of one party.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Wow Aestu way to miss his entire point. Show me where he said that all Jehovah's witnesses crack bad jokes. That was an anecdote about a single PERSON that happened to BE a Jehovah's witness. Even I know that and you all think I'm a herp derp

I think you're a "herp derp" in part because you don't grasp that the intended point of a statement is not always the most important idea to take from it. The "point" often stands before faulty assumptions, questionable attitudes, and various other forms of mistruth.

Yes it's an anecdote. But why mention that anecdote in such a context? How is it relevant that the guy happened to be a JW any more than any of the many other characteristics that define an individual?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

He was DEFENDING JW's from my jackass joke about them one post prior.

He said "no i don't want them to go away the ones i know are good people. case in point, this guy with the jokes."

derp.

You guys need to start ignoring Aestu when he makes these posts. He's been ignored this whole thread and just posted dumb shit to get attention.

Dvergar /
Quisling

I couldn't begin to tell you how their philosophy on the matter evolved, but there have probably been Jehovah's Witnesses longer than there have been blood transfusions. I do not agree with their reasoning, but I understand it, and do not think their conclusion is irrational.

I think one of the reasons you have so much difficulty accepting such a radically different point of view is that your moral reasoning is so contingent upon the outcome of a situation. If the entire basis of your objection rests upon "you let your child die," in what other situations does that imperative take precedence over other considerations? If I can, as Mayo has suggested with his silly "burn the witch" scenario, save the life of my child (which is arguably your primary moral consideration) by killing someone else to harvest their blood/organs (or stop them from targeting my family with witchcraft), am I committing an immoral act by not doing so? If the answer is "no," as it should be, then obviously there are moral considerations that take a greater precedence than simply "not letting your child die," and the only difference between yourself and the Jehovah's Witnesses are what those moral considerations happen to be.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

I know this is off-topic.

I think we all here agree that people with sick children should seek medical attention. But when you say, "just because your beliefs suggest...", you are implying that those beliefs are not beliefs at all. Someone either believes, or they do not believe. You suggest that people with certain beliefs disregard those beliefs when challenges arise. Challenges, and how to deal with them, are the very reasons many of these beliefs exist. Everything they stand for, everything they preach to their families, every decision they make, is based upon these beliefs. All of that goes out the window if they choose the path you suggest.

You can accuse them of many things: Stupidity. Religious zealotry. Whatever. But they aren't frauds, and they aren't a "bad person". They don't want their child to die any more than any other parent. I wonder how many of us believe in ANYTHING (religious, or otherwise) so strongly that we'd be willing to give up our child rather than forsake our beliefs. Not one, I'd wager.

Boredalt - 80 Dwarf Priest - Dissension

Well said, Dooj.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Yes. Jubber wins. Thread essentially over.

I still think they are stupid though.

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