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 Post subject: Re: @arab spring
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:28 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Usdk wrote:
I think that muslims will lose their numbers to atheism and agnosticism slower because we don't kill heretics and unbelievers anymore.


That's just not how it is. They just don't do that.

Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Egypt were atheist police states for decades. Turkey has been secular since the end of WWI. Iran still has one of the world's largest Jewish minorities, and Pakistan still has many Hindus who chose to stay on after the country was split when British rule ended.

Historically, Muslims have been willing to coexist with other faiths (and this has been instrumental to Islam's success).


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 Post subject: Re: @arab spring
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:16 am  
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Old Conservative Faggot
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According to everything I've read, that's true, and in some cases they actually preferred certain infidels (usually Jews) for political/bureaucratic offices because they wouldn't have some of the conflicts of interest a devout Muslim would have. Whatever antisemitism exists in the middle east today is a product of the influence of Germans during WWII and, the more reliable culprit, hard feelings over the history of modern Jerusalem/Israel. Bernard Lewis writes some great books that analyze and explain the history of Islam and the middle east.

However, it is difficult to leave Islam, whether you abstain from faith in general or choose another faith. I'm not sure that always ends up in violence, but there is definitely significant social pressure in Islamic communities to stay true to the faith. As Aestu says, these are people who take their faith seriously. I don't think anyone in our culture, where it is openly acceptable to mock and ridicule faith (if not encouraged), can properly related to what it is like in these communities.

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 Post subject: Re: @arab spring
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:19 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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The Germans weren't in the Middle East during WWII. They were stopped at el-Alamein (in Egypt). They did try to influence India and were less than marginally successful at doing so. Hostility towards the Jews only became an issue because of Zionism, which in turn began to become an issue before WWII, after WWI, with the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and the establishment of the British Mandate over Palestine. It was then - before the Holocaust - that Jews began flowing into Israel.


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 Post subject: Re: @arab spring
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:15 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
The Germans weren't in the Middle East during WWII. They were stopped at el-Alamein (in Egypt).


I'm pretty sure Egypt is considered part of the middle east, and ideas/technology travel(s) over time.

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 Post subject: Re: @arab spring
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:34 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Jubbergun wrote:
and ideas/technology travel(s) over time


Do you have evidence to support this as relevant in this case?


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