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 Post subject: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:14 am  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/world/africa/africa-obama-troops/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Ogogogogogogogod plz no plz no o god no plz

A whole 100 soldiers deployed in an advisory role to African forces to take down a murderous warlord, ordered to engage the enemy only if necessary for self defense.

The comments indicate we might as well have started WWIII
Quote:

LisaSimeone
Yeah, the anti-war President.

We're now involved in more wars in more places than ever before. Change you can believe in.



Oh no. Oh fuck no.

Start the draft!


Brawlsack

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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:40 am  
Blathering Buffoon
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The comment section of any political news story is the kind of reading that makes you pray for airborne super-aids.

Military advisors are nothing new and the comparisons to Vietnam are ridiculous for many reasons.


Dvergar /
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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:35 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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It's nothing new in that "advisors" means now the same as what it meant in Vietnam which is American soldiers getting involved in conflicts that are none of our business.

If Dvergar is so naive as to believe those "advisors" are desk jockeys then I would remind him that there are currently 50,000 American combat troops serving as "advisors" in Iraq.

Will this Africa thing turn into another Vietnam/Iraq? No, it won't. But it's still none of our business.

Africa needs to go through what every successful, civilized country has gone through, which is churn until homeostasis and political accountability emerges. It may take centuries or even milennia - just as it did in other cultures - but it is the height of arrogance for us to believe that we are so perfect to have omniscient, transcendental wisdom as to how their political development should play out. Of course that sort of chauvinistic hypocrisy is characteristic of Dvergar's rationalizations so it would not surprise me if he is in favor of this action.

All we are really doing there is buttressing the unacceptable status quo and keeping the Africans in a state of political infancy. Our only motive for doing so is our own hubris.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:34 am  
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Still butt-hurt over that HeMan Woman Haters club meeting I broke up in the other thread?

Yeah, I totally thought advisors meant nerd with pocket protectors. I mean, that's exactly what I said there right? Oh wait no I never said that and you just wanted something to attack me over, since nothing existed in my post, you just decided to make shit up.


Dvergar /
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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:15 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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You implied that "military advisors" isn't a euphemism by rejecting a comparison to what it meant and led to in Vietnam. You implied that the article is wrong-minded by way of its placement, and by corollary the truth is something else (i.e., that the intervention is A-OK).

If that's not what you meant then set the record straight.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:24 am  
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Aestu wrote:
Then set the record straight.


My post was in reference to Battle's topic, that being the over-reaction of those in the comments section.

Quote:
but the entirety your post's substance seemed to be that Obama did no wrong.


Quote:
The comment section of any political news story is the kind of reading that makes you pray for airborne super-aids.


You're right, that totally says Obama is the Messiah.

Quote:
Military advisors are nothing new and the comparisons to Vietnam are ridiculous for many reasons.


Quote:
My post was in reference to Battle's topic, that being the over-reaction of those in the comments section.


You seem to have trouble reading, so I figured I'd quote myself again just in case you got lost


Dvergar /
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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:30 am  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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Yeah, I don't give two shits and a flying fuck about 100 troops serving an advisory role with non-engagement orders unless fired upon.

You're right, it's none of our business that this retard is just sending his minions all about the country raping and murdering people.

Africa needs an uprising? Really? You think a lot more people dying to do what we can do in a few weeks, if that..is worth it? Aestu, the great Humanitarian, and Internet Julius Caesar.


Brawlsack

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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:33 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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You make the choice to communicate with an emphasis on rage and sarcasm rather than matter-of-fact communication. The responsibility for that choice, lays with the man making it.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:47 am  
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Aestu wrote:
You make the choice to communicate with an emphasis on rage and sarcasm rather than matter-of-fact communication. The responsibility for that choice, lays with the man making it.


Here's a tip for your next internet argument: try actually reading what the other person wrote and responding to that instead of responding to whatever made up shit pops into your head at the time.


Dvergar /
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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:02 am  
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Battletard wrote:
Yeah, I don't give two shits and a flying fuck about 100 troops serving an advisory role with non-engagement orders unless fired upon.


"Unless..." In Africa, that's a pretty damn big "unless".

Also consider it this way. What's the cumulative price tag? Salaries, hazard pay, food, fuel, equipment, facilities, vehicles etc? Then ask, what else could be done with that kind of dough?

A drop in the bucket? Sure. But it's still a damn big drop.

Battletard wrote:
You're right, it's none of our business that this retard is just sending his minions all about the country raping and murdering people.

Africa needs an uprising? Really? You think a lot more people dying to do what we can do in a few weeks, if that..is worth it? Aestu, the great Humanitarian, and Internet Julius Caesar.


There is an old saying, "When you save a life, that life belongs to you."

The expression is metaphorical, not literal. In putting oneself in a position of moral responsibility, one faces the corollary obligation to contemplate the implications of said responsibility.

No one's going to deny that this cult is perpetrating horrible violence. This cult is able to perpetrate the violence because of a vacuum of political authority and security in Africa.

It is naive to believe that ending that violence is as simple as "scalpel and forceps" surgery - remove an offending object and get out. When you make the choice to get involved in a situation...you become a stakeholder in that situation...with your own interests, goals, values, your own assets and limitations. And you need to consider ALL the dynamics of the situation, not just the ones you happen to not like. That this violence is appalling to any decent person doesn't change the implications of the decision to get involved.

Can you GUARANTEE that by getting involved, you are truly paving the way for a better future for these people? After all, you're not changing or removing the realities that led to this situation in the first place, are you? Are you? Or are you truly willing to "take ownership" of the lives you have just saved - setting up a political system appropriate to the realities of their situation, ensuring the security of their people, creating a workable economy, mending differences between inimical groups in the country? No?

Then how can you be so sure that by getting involved - picking and pulling at their affairs - you are doing the right thing?

The situation exists for a simple reason: The Africans cannot manage their own security, and do not have responsible political institutions. Getting involved won't change that. Only the Africans can.

Now, say, you remove this cult. How long do you think it will be until someone else exploits the power vacuum all the same? Conversely, if the violence continues, how long will Africans tolerate it? Can you really be sure that by stopping the violence, you aren't also stopping the process by which a responsible homegrown government, capable of protecting its people, might emerge? After all, if you have the US Army ensuring the public safety, there's not much impetus for a homegrown solution, is there?

And what's our motive? The goodness of our hearts? Was it misanthropy that led us to get involved in Vietnam, Korea, the Philippines, Judaea? Was it our own greed? Or was it that we were so arrogant as to think that we could foresee the consequences of our own well-intentioned actions?

In the here and now...is our ability to manage even our own society...our knowledge of even our own history...our mastery of even our own future...so absolute to justify such confidence in meddling in others' affairs?

If you cannot answer in the affirmative then you have no moral basis for trying to solve others' problems.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:27 am  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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TLDR so I'll just leave this response here:



Brawlsack

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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:30 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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If you think the world is such a simple place that anything more than a page long is "TLDR" then you have no business with an opinion on matters of life and death.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:36 am  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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Aestu wrote:
People getting murdered by the hundreds in Africa, we must do something to save human lives!
But reading a page of text is just too much.



Aestu wrote:
You make the choice to communicate with an emphasis on rage and sarcasm rather than matter-of-fact communication. The responsibility for that choice, lays with the man making it.







If you want a real answer Aestu, this takes a lot less effort than arguing with a man who has yet to change his mind or stance on any issue or admit fault or wrondoing, yet calls everyone else out for the same character flaws he exhibits himself.

However, rather than write a mini-thesis of verbal diarrhea like yourself, I'll just continue with this. Perhaps your own worst enemy is you, and that's the source of your unhappiness.


in b4 For Aestu, By Aestu


Brawlsack

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 Post subject: Re: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:54 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Battletard wrote:
If you want a real answer Aestu, this takes a lot less effort than arguing with a man who has yet to change his mind or stance on any issue or admit fault or wrondoing, yet calls everyone else out for the same character flaws he exhibits himself.

However, rather than write a mini-thesis of verbal diarrhea like yourself, I'll just continue with this. Perhaps your own worst enemy is you, and that's the source of your unhappiness.


I believe what I do in the here and now because my viewpoints have, over time, changed to reach this point.

Nothing I said was angry or sarcastic. It was straightforward, logical, and on-point. The overall "thesis" - that it is not right to get involved in a complex situation without providing for all the moral and material responsibilities - is cogent.

I mean, you would agree this thing in Africa is serious, no? Shouldn't it be taken seriously?
Is the killing something so frivolous that a paragraph can say all that must be said about it?

EDIT: I'll also say - happiness is NOT the most important thing in the world. I would go so far as to say that a happy person is incapable of viewing the world with moral clarity.

Anyone who looks at the world, and feels happy, is a bad person.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Obama the Warmongering Socialist
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:01 am  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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So if a paragraph won't suffice, will 5? Will 10? Will 10000 page reports meet your standards?


Brawlsack

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