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 Post subject: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:23 pm  
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Deliciously Trashy
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Anyone watch it? ANYONE D:


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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:46 pm  
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Not yet, I take time to get around to things. I just started watching Game of Thrones about 2-3 weeks ago.

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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:51 pm  
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yeah i've seen both seasons. my brother and i are in a HEATED debate about how he managed to pull that off in the last episode.


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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:20 pm  
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I WANT TO KNOW HOW HE DID IT OMG

Like, I just finished it last night. I could barely sleep last night trying to figure out how he pulled it off.


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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:34 pm  
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Zaryi wrote:
I WANT TO KNOW HOW HE DID IT OMG

Like, I just finished it last night. I could barely sleep last night trying to figure out how he pulled it off.


i know it had something to do with molly and watson getting hit by the biker


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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:46 am  
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I agree with Molly definitely having something to do with it, but apart from that I'm stumped.

Curious to see/hear your full theory.

I've also become a pathetic Johnlock shipper >_>


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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:56 am  
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Didn't watch it, can't find a video easily, going to take a shot in the dark based on two minutes of Googling and knowledge of stereotyped irony.

It would be too obvious for the corpse to be a body double planted by Molly. Obviously, Sherlock plotted that the meeting occur at that place, at that time, and Moriarty, who wants to ruin Sherlock, knows this. Therefore, Sherlock in turn knows that whatever may happen, Moriarty will use the meeting to frame or otherwise destroy him.

What Moriarty needs to win the game is to corroborate his implication that Sherlock was involved with the girls with hard facts. Knowing that Sherlock is in a certain place, at a certain time, affords this opportunity.

Sherlock wasn't looking for his accomplice. He was looking for Moriarty's accomplice.
The same accomplice who previously impersonated him for the purpose of conditioning the girl.

And that accomplice - not Sherlock, and not a well-dressed corpse stolen from the morgue - is the dead man.

The biker wasn't aiming for Watson. He was aiming for Sherlock. He is a confederate of Moriarty. Obviously, if Sherlock had jumped, the corpse would be there, and since the deed would be done, any further actions would be irrelevant. The biker kept going because he saw something wasn't going according to plan. Sherlock, or rather the imposter, was already dead.

EDIT: I can't find a copy of that Miller Time Vs Aestu thread. Makes me sad. I really miss those days =/

EDIT2: This is actually not a true mystery. A true mystery deals in facts and evidence that require insight to fit into a coherent solution. In this case, too many pieces of the puzzle are missing for the viewer to be able to conclusively solve the "mystery". You might as well call a 500-piece puzzle with two-thirds of the pieces missing a "puzzle".

This is a soap opera. Unimaginative, stereotyped twists; a cast of shallow, psychotic characters; constant interpersonal quarrels without clear allegiances or agendas; and totally unpredictable, ludicrously dramatic events, that are outrageous to the point of being stereotyped, define that genre.

Sherlock Holmes mysteries were always about very small people and small stakes. Sherlock Holmes himself was a small, talentless, unambitious man. This smallness defined the mystery genre, because Sherlock Holmes stories were about how little we know. This story is the opposite; it's a Brave New World / F451 type drama that tries to make the viewer feel he knows way more than he does by putting small characters on an outrageously sized stage.

The fact that so much of the show revolves around "criminal undeground" and deus machinas like the magic computer code to open any door betray that this show fails as a mystery series.

All good fiction is defined by its limitations.

If the show is nothing but a bunch of deus machinas - nothing has any limitation, any problem, any event can be overcome with computer hacking or tech gadgets (e.g., do we know Sherlock fell off the side? do we know that was him? do we know whose body that was? do we even know it was a body?) then what you have isn't fiction, it's just cheap soap opera garbage.

I'll also pre-empt comparisons to Star Trek by pointing out that it was "limitations" that made TNG incomparably superior to Voyager/DS9/Enterprise. TNG Plots were rarely resolved by "magic tech device" and more by making some sort of choice (with a cost attached) or having some sort of insight into events based on the facts presented. In Voyager, EVERY plot was resolved by some sort of deus machina that vacillated the "knowns" of the drama, or the actions of overly dramatic characters with unrealistic capabilities and no apparent weaknesses.

It's just trash, but if people want to watch this garbage, that's their choice I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:00 pm  
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aestu, the fact that you're commenting on something you haven't seen strikes me as ...weird. also if you'd seen it, your crackpot theory would make absolutely no sense. moriarty shoots himself in the head, is lying on the roof 30 feet away from sherlock standing on the ledge, talking to watson. there is no break in the line of sight from watson to sherlock, talking on a cellphone to confirm his voice and identity when he jumps. it was sherlock who jumped. 100%. the question is, how did he survive it. not to mention, since you are not human (i'm not being figurative) your opinion of a mystery television show is of absolutely no consequence.

zaryi, to me it seems the simplest answer is generally the right one. there's a truck going by, and one of those shop tents is also below him. i also find it interesting that he told John to stay RIGHT where he was, knowing that John was obscured from the eventual impact site, and would be slowed by the biker (employed by sherlock). i think he jumped, fell into a tent or on top of a truck, or a combination of the two, landed on the ground with enough force to convince a curious passerby, fake blood, etc. also, you can see john trying to take his pulse but someone pulls him away before he can. with some help from molly, voila.

what do you think?


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.


Last edited by Dotzilla on Tue May 15, 2012 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:02 pm  
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Dotzilla wrote:
zaryi, to me it seems the simplest answer is generally the right one.


You're disregarding the condition of Occam's Razor - "All things being equal..." However, all things are NOT equal. Certainly not when dealing with people, let alone TV drama.

This is contrary to both the spirit of classic Sherlock Holmes drama (almost all of the stories are about initial impressions and facile explanations being completely wrong because the devil is in the details) and the spirit of soap opera (if it's "just that easy" the answer would be obvious to at least some people).


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:10 pm  
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Aestu wrote:
Dotzilla wrote:
zaryi, to me it seems the simplest answer is generally the right one.


You're disregarding the condition of Occam's Razor - "All things being equal..." However, all things are NOT equal. Certainly not when dealing with people, let alone TV drama.

This is contrary to both the spirit of classic Sherlock Holmes drama (almost all of the stories are about initial impressions and facile explanations being completely wrong because the devil is in the details) and the spirit of soap opera (if it's "just that easy" the answer would be obvious to at least some people).


occam's razor pertains to math, and only an imbecile would attempt to apply it to life.

also this

Quote:
not to mention, since you are not human (i'm not being figurative) your opinion of a mystery television show is of absolutely no consequence.


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:22 pm  
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Dotzilla wrote:
occam's razor pertains to math, and only an imbecile would attempt to apply it to life.


I'm not the one that cited it, whether by name or by definition.

Quote:
not to mention, since you are not human (i'm not being figurative) your opinion of a mystery television show is of absolutely no consequence.




Or am I not understanding what you meant?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:28 pm  
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you've gathered all this from my subjective interpretation of how a television show writer implemented plot twists? this is what i meant. zaryi and i are discussing a human television show. you literally have no frame of reference.


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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:44 pm  
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Dotzilla wrote:
you've gathered all this from my subjective interpretation of how a television show writer implemented plot twists? this is what i meant. zaryi and i are discussing a human television show. you literally have no frame of reference.


There's nothing subjective about the fact of your invocation of Occam's Razor, nor the fact you claimed that only an imbecile would apply it to life. You say it's a human television show, i.e., the rules of life apply to interpreting the plot and characters. Therefore, according to you, Occam's Razor ought not apply. Yet you invoked it all the same.

None of that is my subjective opinion. Merely the facts of what you said.


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Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:57 pm  
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god, this is boring. it's like trying to explain art to a republican. so, i have spoken the magic words, "the simplest explanation is generally the right one." which apparently, in your mind is me invoking occams razor. no, i was explaining the trending of how the show is written.

just because something sounds like something you know, doesn't mean it has anything to do with anything you know.


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 Post subject: Re: @Sherlock
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:17 pm  
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Dotzilla wrote:
god, this is boring. it's like trying to explain art to a republican.

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