Old Conservative Faggot Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 am Posts: 4308 Location: Winchester Virginia
The world is full of weird shit. If Viking Monkeys from Betelgeuse landed tomorrow and demanded mead and roast meat, I would only be surprised that they weren't asking for bananas.
Definitely believe there's more than just us in this universe. Actually, even our galaxy. I mean, we send out probes and UFO's of our own to other planets in our solar system, and we've found many planets in the goldielocks zone of other stars. How can we say that there's no other intelligent life out there?
[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three) [✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two) [✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item] [✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item] [✔] [item]46017[/item] [✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two) [✔] [item]71086[/item]
French Faggot Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:15 pm Posts: 5227 Location: New Jersey
Pretty good chances there's life out there. UFOs though? No.
Anything capable of bridging that kind of distance would have sensors which render close flybys totally unnecessary. And if they were collecting samples, they'd probably do it somewhere other than the midwestern United States.
Querulous Quidnunc Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:41 am Posts: 4695
Usdk wrote:
I find it likely there's intelligent life out there. I find it unlikely they would come all the way here to draw shit in our farmland.
Oh yeah, crop circles are a complete hoax. I'm just talking about the weird lights and other UFO-things people capture on film (specifically the ones referenced in the CNN articles).
This is the true nature of the UFOs at Area 51: Area 51 is a base for nuclear-powered aircraft. These aircraft are to jets what nuclear cruisers are to oil-powered ships. They can stay aloft for months on end - the crews would need to be rotated, and more food brought aboard, before the aircraft would need to be refueled. Because these aircraft house a nuclear reactor (and many tons of dense lead shielding) and do not utilize combustion, they are very large and relatively quiet.
The claim that Area 51 is home to captured ships of alien origin powered by an exotic element is actually a red herring originated by the NSA. The purpose of this red herring is both as a smokescreen for the truth and to weed out potential liabilities amongst those under examination to work at the base. This myth is conveniently partially congruent with the truth in that the aircraft in question use radioactive isotopes, that they are more like ships than aircraft, and that the operations there began concurrently with when the alien hoax supposedly occurred.
Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev wrote a two-book autobiography, Khrushchev Remembers. The first of the two books is about his early life and years working for Stalin. The latter of the two is about his years as Premier. In the latter book, he describes an encounter with a Soviet nuclear engineer who proposed a nuclear-powered aircraft, with unlimited range and no need to refuel. Khrushchev approved of the engineer, describing his attitude as being "like a mail-order magazine, 'if you want it and afford it, we can build it'". As it happens, Khrushchev decided the USSR couldn't afford the program, so it never got past some early experiments. In the next chapter of his book, Khrushchev describes his interactions with JFK and the Cuban Missile Crisis, and expresses his (understandable) grudge that JFK relied on his charm and bravado to weather the crisis and did not quite play fair. The book alludes to, but does not explicitly mention, the secret part of the 1962 Kennedy-Khrushchev pact that removed from Turkey the US nukes aimed at Moscow.
The US got a bit further with their nuclear aircraft programme. Some of this knowledge is public and can be found pretty easily on Wikipedia. The line of research was promising...but in the early 1960s, all development on nuclear propulsion suddenly ceased, for no apparent reason.
Watch this declassified Air Force strategic analysis (filmed in 1960). Listen closely to what the colonel says at 8:05 and 8:45:
"flexibility provided by the nuclear bomber...the weapons system which would affect this capability [decisive advantage in first-strike nuclear delivery] would appear be nuclear-propelled and supersonic bombers..."
It is my belief that there was another secret part to the accord reached after the 1962 Cuban missile crisis. Both NATO and the Soviets agreed to not research nuclear jet technology because it was feared that nuclear aircraft would prove too dangerous, too environmentally destructive, and too destabilizing to the global politic. Achieving what the colonel describes - decisive first-strike capability - would vacillate the balance of terror of mutually assured destruction, guaranteeing an eventual nuclear war. Never mind that a nuclear-armed aircraft that could operate autonomously for months would be too powerful a force for any crew to be trusted with - like the rogue bomber in Dr. Strangelove to the Nth degree.
It is not known to the West whether or not the Soviets honored the secret agreement. But the United States did not. This is what they are actually doing at Area 51 - researching and building these incredible machines.
And now you know =)
As for the things you linked? Who knows, could be anything.
There's most definitely life out there. They haven't made it here though. I watched some youtube of some bald british guy in sunglasses (I can't find it), and he had this really good point about it. Basically, if some alien government decided to pour a massive amount of time, effort, and space-bucks into going on an intergalactic space-trek, they aren't going to get to their planet, fly around in view of some cameras, zap up a redneck, and doodle in a cornfield.
If they actually do get here and they're anything like us, imagine what happened to the natives of the americas (aztecs, NA indian tribes, incans, etc) when the white people (spanish, english, etc) came, only on a global scale, especially since they're obviously miles beyond us in technology if they can get here in the first place.
What Mayo said is obviously true. That said, I see little reason to believe aliens would be as whimsically cruel as some humans are.
Looking at interstellar travel from the Human point of view, obviously, we'd be in it for the money. Would it be worthwhile? I think it would be the same as intrasolar colonization - massive investment for even more massive returns - but even more so.
I think that interstellar colonization would be the appropriate application for "complex financial instruments". Expedition goes to neighboring star system to set up mostly automated factory churning out some product that can only be produced in an alien environment - perhaps something created using neutron stars, very high gravity, or intense gamma radiation. Medical instruments, super-solid materials, powerful magnets, singularity cores, stuff like that.
After a journey of a few centuries, the factory would be set up using the supplied materials, and a convoy full of manufactured goods would arrive back at Earth a couple thousand years later. Meanwhile, the "financial instruments" - some sort of stock - would be traded back and forth on a basically speculative basis. Same story as with Age of Sail trading expeditions.
The fundamental problem is that humans are shortsighted and short-lived. Even using financial instruments, it's hard to get humans to commit to an enormously profitable venture reaching so far past their own lifetimes. For humans to find interstellar investment appealing, they would have to start thinking in terms of thousands or tens of thousands of years ahead; as with making products like pickled eggs, soy sauce, truffles, old growth hardwood and fine wine that take over a century to mature, each generation would send out an expedition and live off a convoy sent out a thousand years earlier.
I mean, it's possible. Maybe aliens think that way...if aliens have longer lifespans, or different thought processes, they'd think it more worthwhile...but that brings us back to the fundamental issue that our solar system simply doesn't contain anything aliens would be likely to find useful. But if alien interstellar travel were to be considered possible and desirable, on a basis within the scope of human knowledge, that's what the motive and method would be.
Meanwhile, back here on Earth, I remain convinced that is the proper approach to reforestation and environmental management. Use of abstract financial instruments to create an incentive to build forests and cultivate old growth. Etc, etc.
Mayo's point about the human colonization trends hold plenty of weight. Just because they're not like us doesn't mean they won't be like us in that respect. Too little information to make a judgement either way though.
Old Conservative Faggot Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:19 am Posts: 4308 Location: Winchester Virginia
Battletard wrote:
Look up Fermi Paradox. Really interesting theories explaining likelihood of intelligent life vs why contact has not yet occurred.
My favorite theory for why nothing has contacted us is because something is out there killing any civilizations it finds before they reach that point. Because the universe is a fucked up and shitty place, judging by this corner of it, and is subject to some incredibly sick sense of humor.
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