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 Post subject: Help with my DK
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:58 pm  
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Kunckleheaded Knob
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 2:31 pm
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I got a sort of extensive question here. I have read all over the place and yet to see a definitive answer.

HIT RATING as a tank.

I mean common sense says if my attacks aren't hitting I am not generating threat. But what is the point where I can quit worrying about it?

Should I be going for expertise first as some posts suggest? My logic again points to no since if your attacks aren't hitting it doesn't matter the percentage they might be parried or dodged?

I originally leveled this guy simply for another set of professions but I effing love PVP'ing with this guy. Everything about it is full of awesome. And I have wanted a tanking class for a while. So he is slowly becoming my new main. Unlike some other people who would rather fail at the game instead of asking and potentially getting flamed I would rather ask.

This forum seems to weed out most of the terrible players that would offer terrible advice.

Couple other questions:

I hear blood tanking in ICC is the way to go?
I head blood tanking is better single target TPS but sucks for trash which is easily handled by frost.
What is a good armor value? I am sure it matters to an extent. I am sitting at about 26k armor at the moment with Frost Presence that is.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &cn=Cashel

Can someone/everyone :) help me out and pick apart spec etc to see if you have any tips?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:01 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:41 pm
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how extensive of a review do you want? :p
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:41 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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Your gear is pretty solid and should easily be able to handle ICC 10 with 20% buff. Anyone telling you otherwise is severely underestimating DK tanks. There's a few things you can immediately work on to improve your gear drastically.

1) Don't get the ICC sigil, it's terrible and nowhere near as useful as the one you have now. Keep that sigil always (disclaimer, yes it is not always one of the worst, but it is so situational and should only be used if you know 100% that it'll have a 100% uptime)
2) The Black Heart, get it. This will outclass ANY trinket you can get unless it provides a stable 220+ stam (eg, Sindra trinket or heroic sindra trinket, or heroic satrinas/juggernaut)
3) Get rid of your inscription shoulder enchant, invest in the pvp 30 stam 15 resil. The 30 stam is a much higher benefit that you'll be able to gain with the 60 dodge.
4) Get your rep ring asap, revered will be your 4th BiS ring possible, exalted is your 3rd BiS. The only better ones are 277 drops.

Professions:
As a DK I highly suggest either blacksmithing or jewelcrafting. I have both, but both are not 100% necessary and just a tiny bit improvement over just having one. If you want to get deep into raiding you'll want 2 crafting professions, if not then pick up mining as your 2nd profession as it is always a good gathering profession for tanks due to the stamina increase.


Glyphs:
Get rid of the fucking IBF glyph, anytime I see this glyph on a dk tank, i assume they are fucking retarded.

IBF scales to the rate of 0.15% more damage reduction per defense skill (not rating)
Base % for IBF = 30%
Defense skill to IBF translation at 540 (crit cap) = 21% increase
Giving your IBF a 51% damage reduction w/o the glyph.
Defense skill to IBF translation at 564 defense (yours) = 24.6%
Giving your IBF a 54.6% damage reduction w/o the glyph.
Using that glyph makes your IBF worse than it could be.

2h Frost is meh for tanking, your essentially giving up the massive threat of frost by using a 2h and not DWing. it's not bad, but it's not great.

Your talents don't look bad, few places where I would differ, (Endless Winter is the main one) but most of those are preferential.



Now onto your questions.
Hit rating and expertise as a DK tank is actually quite important. With the change to IT though, hit rating is slightly more important than expertise. You should do your best to get those near (within 1-2%) of cap or above cap and keep them there.

Blood tanking is the way to go in ICC, the self healing is quite awesome combined with the powerful cooldowns of VB + AMS + IBF lead to a very versatile tank. (Sup solo eating Soul Reaper without taking any damage...)

Blood does suck for trash due to our really only way able to generate aoe threat from DND/Disease/Blood Boil, 2 of these 3 are so minor in blood it's laughable.

Goal armor: 70% which is around 36-38k iirc. I would have to say as your gear improves your armor will follow. Get the gloves/chest t10 asap, emblem belt, emblem cloak. This should get you to a reasonable armor value.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:53 pm  
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Stupid Schlemiel
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 4:53 pm
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delete, it's a dk!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:03 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:41 pm
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Jushiro wrote:
delete, it's a warlock!


i agree completely
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:21 pm  
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Kunckleheaded Knob
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 2:31 pm
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Kamguh wrote:
Your gear is pretty solid and should easily be able to handle ICC 10 with 20% buff. Anyone telling you otherwise is severely underestimating DK tanks. There's a few things you can immediately work on to improve your gear drastically.

1) Don't get the ICC sigil, it's terrible and nowhere near as useful as the one you have now. Keep that sigil always (disclaimer, yes it is not always one of the worst, but it is so situational and should only be used if you know 100% that it'll have a 100% uptime)
2) The Black Heart, get it. This will outclass ANY trinket you can get unless it provides a stable 220+ stam (eg, Sindra trinket or heroic sindra trinket, or heroic satrinas/juggernaut)
3) Get rid of your inscription shoulder enchant, invest in the pvp 30 stam 15 resil. The 30 stam is a much higher benefit that you'll be able to gain with the 60 dodge.
4) Get your rep ring asap, revered will be your 4th BiS ring possible, exalted is your 3rd BiS. The only better ones are 277 drops.

Professions:
As a DK I highly suggest either blacksmithing or jewelcrafting. I have both, but both are not 100% necessary and just a tiny bit improvement over just having one. If you want to get deep into raiding you'll want 2 crafting professions, if not then pick up mining as your 2nd profession as it is always a good gathering profession for tanks due to the stamina increase.


Glyphs:
Get rid of the fucking IBF glyph, anytime I see this glyph on a dk tank, i assume they are fucking retarded.

IBF scales to the rate of 0.15% more damage reduction per defense skill (not rating)
Base % for IBF = 30%
Defense skill to IBF translation at 540 (crit cap) = 21% increase
Giving your IBF a 51% damage reduction w/o the glyph.
Defense skill to IBF translation at 564 defense (yours) = 24.6%
Giving your IBF a 54.6% damage reduction w/o the glyph.
Using that glyph makes your IBF worse than it could be.

2h Frost is meh for tanking, your essentially giving up the massive threat of frost by using a 2h and not DWing. it's not bad, but it's not great.

Your talents don't look bad, few places where I would differ, (Endless Winter is the main one) but most of those are preferential.



Now onto your questions.
Hit rating and expertise as a DK tank is actually quite important. With the change to IT though, hit rating is slightly more important than expertise. You should do your best to get those near (within 1-2%) of cap or above cap and keep them there.

Blood tanking is the way to go in ICC, the self healing is quite awesome combined with the powerful cooldowns of VB + AMS + IBF lead to a very versatile tank. (Sup solo eating Soul Reaper without taking any damage...)

Blood does suck for trash due to our really only way able to generate aoe threat from DND/Disease/Blood Boil, 2 of these 3 are so minor in blood it's laughable.

Goal armor: 70% which is around 36-38k iirc. I would have to say as your gear improves your armor will follow. Get the gloves/chest t10 asap, emblem belt, emblem cloak. This should get you to a reasonable armor value.


This is awesome. Thank you very much. I wasn't sure if the IBF stacked i.e my defense gives me 50% and then that is 40% I was thinking 90% reduction. But it makes sense that it doesn't. Guess it is more for the tanks that are still under def cap?

I am all for learning from others, you could have written a 10 page guide and I would have read it ha-ha. Thanks again for the help!


85 Mage Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 LOLKnight Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 Shaman Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:24 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:41 pm
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np :)

IBF glyph was originally designed for pvp when they moved it down to 30%
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:27 pm  
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Kunckleheaded Knob
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 2:31 pm
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One other question should I be using a two hander as blood tanking?


85 Mage Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 LOLKnight Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 Shaman Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:46 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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yes
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:57 pm  
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Pinheaded Pissant
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:29 pm
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it also helps to be really fat.

that's why kamguh's so good.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:20 pm  
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Blathering Buffoon
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:52 pm
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fatguh invite me into your dum guild


Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves proud because they had no claws.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:34 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:41 pm
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whisper me damnit
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:21 pm  
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Kunckleheaded Knob
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 2:31 pm
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One question in your blood spec you have 1 point sitting in sudden doom.

Wouldn't that point be better spend say in scent of blood (more runic power = more rune strikes) or Mark of Blood would be nice to put on healers or other melee or even IMP blood presence to improve healing on you by 5%?


85 Mage Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 LOLKnight Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 Shaman Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:57 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:41 pm
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Reread Imp blood presence
I sit at 100 runic power for most of the fights, since death coil is a waste of a GCD honestly. I use it sparingly and not very often enough to warrant a point in SoB
MoB has 20 charges, counts for any boss damage (sindragosa aura counts) so it is negligible in healing because it doesn't just heal you. Also doesn't work if you not actually even hit, 60% health and dodged an attack? nothing procs
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