Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

Wanted to start a thread to discuss what I think is rather important to guilds who play this game, especially on our server.

Despite popular belief, wow is an intensely social game. Socializing with your realm, your faction, and other guilds/pugs on the server is a very crucial part of the game each time you log in. I have seen guilds rise and fall since I started playing this game, which is admittedly not long when compared to some of the other players on this server, and especially on this forum. FUBU seems to contain quite a few veteran members who played back in Vanilla day and even early BC. I had never even heard of the game at that time. Many, not all, of those guilds that have dissolved in that time have been to faulty social mechanics within the game.

As a guild, your reputation on the server is vital to survival and longevity. Many may take that as a joke. "It's just a game dude". Well sure it is. But what is your guild's goal in the game? Is it to make bad guys fall over in raids? Well in that case you are going to need members right? And more then likely you are going to want some quality members in that group. Well who would want to join a guild whose reputation on the server is that of disrespect or arrogance. Maybe the guild is known for ninja'ing and being unfair to pugs. None of those things are going to bode well for recruiting new meat, and thus you will never reach your goal.

The effect of a poor reputation on the server can also be seen in your current members. On one hand, the progression will slowly come to a halt. If recruitment dries up due to the above reason of a bad reputation, then progression slows down and the current member base becomes dissatisfied with the guild since their goal is that of the guilds..."make bad guys fall over in raids".

The guilds current members will also have the unfortunate side effect of being cast in a negative light by others on the server. The guild tag is a branding of sorts. The guilds members walk around carrying that guild reputation into every heroic 5 man and every raid they get into. Once the word gets out about the guilds poor reputation, those guild members will start getting shunned from raids. The guild might have some very delightful members that have personally done nothing wrong to the server at large. But they get grouped and stereotyped in with the guild. And hey let's face it...if the guild behaves a certain way, and you are in the guild...you are guilty of putting up with it.

Keeping guild members happy should always be the #1 priority of the guild.

Inter guild relation is also quite important. Sure there is a level of competition between raiding guilds, especially those of the same faction. Sometimes that can result in members jumping between the guilds for a better position on the raiding ladder. Sometimes the guilds can form a mutual agreement and trade their raiders freely. Either way, when you have large groupings of wow players under one banner, it would be silly to not form some semblence of relationship with t hat guild. Your guild can gain enormous benefits from that guild bond. What if you are short some raiders on Tuesday for a lich king attempt? Maybe that guild that you have that solid relationship with can lend some backup raiders or perhaps some highly geared/skilled alts. If your members are looking for a good pug to get into, and you know this friend guild runs a consistent pug, a deal can be struck to include members from each guild thus mutually benefiting both guilds. Need some crafted items or some patterns? Ask the friend guild if there is any sitting around in the guild bank!

Social networking exists in wow on the player level, as well as the guild level. Do not be afraid to meet some new people. If you are an officer of a guild, or a guild leader, maybe pop into a new guilds vent and say hello. Extend an offer to come to your pug later in the week. These social bonds are what will keep your guild running far longer than guilds that choose to ignore the social aspect of this game.

As a personal example: I make it a point to know the guild leaders of other guilds on the server. If I can't contact the GM's then I reach out to key members of the guild to say hello, invite them to pugs, see how they are doing, when they raid, etc. Shame (Leader of Totem Totem Totem) have had a friendly relationship in game since BC. Now a days I lead my pug on Saturdays at 5pm, several TTT members on their alts attend. Shame runs his ICC25 pug at 9pm on Saturdays, several HS members on their alts attend. Both of the pugs run 10-11 bosses with last week seeing 3-4 heroic modes.

If your guild ends up with a bad reputation through whatever cause...this is not the end of the world, it is always possible to change things for the better before it spirals out of control. And yes, a bad reputation and kill a guild quite quickly for the reasons mentioned above. You need to figure what it is that is giving you the bad rep. If it is a guild member that ninja a piece of loot, gkick. If you have a clique of people in the guild who are causing drama for others in the guild, boot them. Cutting off a tumor before it spreads is always going to be better than waiting to see if it gets better on it's own. If you are unsure of what you are doing wrong and why the guild has come the rep it has...ask around. Use your inter guild relationships (if you have any) to get some opinions. As IS aid at the beginning, wow is a social game...there are no secrets. Chances are someone out there knows what the problem is, where it started and how to fix it...or who can help you fix it.

Remember guild leaders, you represent a large portion of the server. Despite what you may think, the way you act in game, has ramifications on how your guild is viewed and can easily effect your guild members because of it.

Anyways, this rambling was originally directed at someone but I decided to make it more general. Please excuse the lack of linear thought, I was in and out of the lab while writing this. I am not happy with how it turned out, but instead of deleting and rewriting I shall just post. Maybe it can help some people, or at least spark a decent discussion on the topic.

^ pretty much should be common knowledge for everyone. and the tldr for anyone wanting one is pretty much: Dont be a jackass to people unless u want to be treated badly in turn.

A good example of this is Aestu. People went with him cause his raids had a reputation of:
1. Aestu rage, hilarious
2. low amounts of fail

He attracts good players because they know all the bad people get yelled at by him/treated badly and so they and their bad friends dont want to deal with him, leaving the door open to more quality players who will put up with him for their loot rewards.

I am THE man.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee15 ... 171424.jpg

Should be indeed.
But at the moment there is a guild that is dissolving on Horde side because they do not understand this.

Well i havent been on wow in almost a month, let alone been as into it as i was before for much longer, so i barely know anything thats going on.

Isnt it amazing though how uncommon common sense really is?

I am THE man.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee15 ... 171424.jpg

Generally those who are incapable of what Henq was saying are prisoners of their own greed.

Or those who think drama is so great.

WoW succeeds in creating a plausible fantasy environment about heroes killing things for loot much more than even its players and designers realize.

The Iliad is typical of heroic stories. It is set in a world where a bunch of young males compete against each other. To them, reputation, honor, being seen as the most skilled, means everything. They collect trophies that have monetary value and as such are a means to end - for their use as armor or their cash value for buying supplies - but most importantly are symbols of status, prestige, accomplishment.

The Iliad is literally about a warrior who is angry because a piece of loot was taken from him. He really did want the piece of loot, and had a practical use for it, and clearly deserved it, but what that piece of loot really means to him, is honor. It's just the same as a player who gets angry because their loot council didn't give them a piece of loot they wanted - it's about the meaning of the item, the honor, the repute.

Throughout the Iliad, the warriors are always non-apologetic, proud, blustery - just like players in WoW who think it's disgraceful to even suggest that they could ever have done anything better. No matter how stupid the situation is or how clearly in the wrong anyone may be, they will always have some sort of way of clinging to "face".

It's not just the Iliad. Go read about Roland or Sigfried or about how medieval knights in general conducted themselves (I really recommend "A Distant Mirror" by Barbara Tuchmann). Or go watch Yojimbo or The Seven Samurai. All those warrior types handle themselves the same way - total arrogance. Our word "cavalier" literally refers to medieval knights who were about our age.

There's also drama queens like Dido or Helen, or people obsessed with the meaning of loot to the exclusion of deserving it like Paris or Guy Gisborne.

I believe that the behavior of WoW players becomes much more understandable when viewed in the context of agonistic societies throughout history. WoW is not merely a fantasy, it is a world just like any of those.

I've always identified very strongly with Odysseus.

To Quadtard...he's absolutely right. It is not enough to deny loot or spots to bad players, he is completely correct in observing that my long-term goal has always been to build a reputation to discourage bad players from even thinking of coming. I do this not only for my own pugs, but I believe the game itself is enhanced for everyone when effort and good play are known to be rewarded and indifference and poor play are punished. The point is not merely to humiliate and punish bad players for being bad at the game itself but to do my part towards a more fun game world that upholds positive moral values.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

idk about that, the Iliad and the other hero stories were pretty great dramas....WoW is no different. The subtle difference in two uses of the word "drama" betrays the reality of their shared constant - mutual opposition, whether it's Achilles versus Hector or Aestu versus Corus.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Hector > Corus, sry

I thought it was Aestu vs Supah from that togc25 we were in that one day

My toughts on this whole matter can be summed up in about 30 minutes of play last night.

I was fying to a quest in dragonblight and laned to mine a node. An ally druid ( I was on my horde DK) landed on top of me and started to mine it and targeted me. I took this as agression and proceeded to thump the hell out of the druid. Thne while doing my quest I saw an alliance pally trying to solo the elite bird in the Green Dragonsire. I decided to help the pally and he was smart enough to realize his AOE would damage the person that was helping him so he just used judgement and shield while I killed the thing. Then on another quest I had an elite mob to 20% and a horde mage and priest came into the area on the quest so I told them to invite me before I killed it so they could get the quest loot. They told me they rarely saw that behavior anymore and the 80 mage said if I needed any help whatsoever in the area to let him know.

This is how you play the game. Act like and adult, pvp when its fair game, and treat people with respect and you will recieve the same in return. The alliance pally I helped spammed the /thank emote several times to make sure I knew he appreciated the help. The druid got his ass kicked in open world pvp, and the mage and priest made sure they offered to return the favor.

9 level 90s and 10 85s, Damn I need another hobby.

wow aestu for a smart guy this post sure is stupid.

you compare wow to the iliad, then you say that wow is best viewed in the context of 'agonstic' societies in history. assuming you meant agnostic, you've undercut your own argument. the iliad is at its heart a gnostic text.

also broseph, hate to break it to you, but you're Ajax

I don't like Mayonnaise. I think he's a complete asshole and the worst possible moderator for these forums. I'm allowed to say this because nothing is censored here.

I do appreciate Aestu's method of weeding out unqualified people from his raids, it has proven productive in the past and I am sure it continues to do so.

I take the opposite approach and try to help and teach those that do not understand what mistakes they are making. Granted, I have been accused of hand holding before, which is not great and something I am consciously making an effort to reduce both in my pug raids and my guild raids. I do think that my method allows for a bit more social interaction and friendly relationships than other approaches.

I have been in some raids with other guilds, where they just berate and tear down anyone who makes a mistake even once. Those are the same people that find themselves in guilds like the ones I reference in the OP as being those next to dissolve based on poor management and social networking policies.

Maybe Achilles should have brow beat a GM and called him incompetent until he got his loot.

9 level 90s and 10 85s, Damn I need another hobby.

This is why I love you in the guild
I have found myself in numerous situations like that.

We have been out "dungeoneering" (as skrob has termed it) several times and come across some 80's picking on horde alts and decided to help out and then make sure the guy was situated again before continuing on.

Altruism is a positive quality

Menelaus was the one who got his loot stolen

does anyone fucking read anymore

I don't like Mayonnaise. I think he's a complete asshole and the worst possible moderator for these forums. I'm allowed to say this because nothing is censored here.