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You may have put your dick in anything that moved, but you sure as hell didn't fuck the economy.

Please run as the republican candidate?

You know, I think people give presidents way too much credit (or blame) when it comes to the economy.

I think the true economic impacts of presidencies can only be felt in the years after they were in office.




Bill Clinton benefited from the dot-com boom, and left office around the time that bubble burst. George Bush then had that, and the whole September 11th thing rape the economy (not to mention the soaring defense budget). Now Obama is in and had to deal with the sub-prime mortgage crisis.

People like to say Clinton rode the coattails of Reganomics and that he gets too much credit.


Really, I think all presidents get too much credit/blame for the economic situations in the country. The economy is cyclical and has to deal with so many different things that one man alone cannot make or break the economy.

I'm a really big fan of the logic that Clinton's success was based on the previous republican president, but the deficit that Obama's been under since day 1 is entirely his fault.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Yep that's pretty sound logic.

Like I said, the presidents in power are given too much credit/blame for the state of the current economy.

I think Jake was being sarcastic. Or maybe you were being sarcastic back? Good online sarcasm is tough to read sometimes, I'm confused.

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lol we were both being sarcastic.

My second sentence was serious though.

Where does the calf end and the ankle begin!?

No one knows! That's the fun!

Nixon once said, "I've always thought that this country could pretty much run itself domestically without a president."

And it's true. Presidents have very little power over the economy other than screwing it up.

The only three politicians to seriously influence the economy over the last 20 years:
1. Ronald Reagan - got us massively into debt with excessive military spending
2. Al Gore - invented the internet (I gave documentary proof of this a while back)
3. George W Bush - got us even more massively into debt with the cost, both direct and indirect, of the Iraq War

The thing is, people don't really understand the full economic impact of the Iraq War. The economic impact isn't just the direct, financial cost of the war itself.

1. Most significant: the opportunity cost to the American economy of having many skilled individuals involved in the war effort, living off taxpayers instead of contributing to the net worth of the country.

I'm not referring to the men in uniform. I'm referring to the legions of skilled and able support personnel it takes to let them do their jobs - drivers, cooks, engineers, technical personnel, construction experts, translators, etc - all those people who could be engaged in productive work and bring home the bacon rather than being paid for by taxpayers. Again, besides the direct financial cost, we're also losing out on the competitive advantages and increased opportunities those people would bring to our economy.

2. The decay of American military infrastructure.

The cost of the war will be paid long after the shooting stops. Stockpiles of missiles, bombs, ammunition, and consumables, everything from spare parts for Humvees and Apache choppers to MREs, pontoons, flares, sandbags, uniforms, boots - all the endless sundries that make an army function - will have to be replaced. And of course the large vehicles - fighter craft, tanks, etc - have suffered the effects of years of use and will need to be serviced and replaced. That cost will be paid over many years and is not reflected in today's budget.

...

Most of the American budget, at both the federal and state level, is non-discretionary. Short of Congress developing the will to change or axe major programs, the political leadership only has sway over a small part of the budget, not enough to make a difference in our long-term national direction.

So, I honestly don't believe it's fair to attribute our economy to any leader - short of the three examples I cited.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I think Reagan's dismantling of entitlements nearly overnight really fucked the jobless / homelessness situation and really created longterm problems.

Im against entitlements in principle, but I believe some must exist in certain conditions and I am also a big believer in the need for continual audits and reforms.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

"Entitlements" is another word for bread and circuses. At least in the American system. Cutting checks, which is what our "entitlement" program is, does nothing to solve the long-term social problems in this country.

The reason we don't do anything more constructive than cut checks is that cutting checks is less offensive to many Americans than having the government make constructive efforts.

There are a lot of Americans who get mortally offended at the idea that the government might employ people to build roads, aqueducts, housing, or forests. There are a lot of Americans who truly believe that mass transit is a step towards Communism. There are a lot of Americans who think that things like Amtrak or the US Postal Service are Marxist and un-American. There are a lot of Americans who will fight tooth and nail to prevent the government from starting technical institutions.

To those people - and there are a lot of them, and they are very politically active - giving the idle a thousand bucks a month is less offensive than giving them something of real value, be it staple foods, healthcare, or education. These people are ultimately the tools of corporations that are quite happy to extort the increasingly impoverished American citizenry for the use of crumbling infrastructure that was, after all, largely built by the government way back in the 40s and 50s. These business interests use propaganda to arouse the right-wing hordes so that they can go on getting rich off things like shitty Comcast cable or HMOs or the education industry.

And that is why we have an entitlement program that consists of cash handouts. Because it's less odious than an entitlement program that works.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Bill for Office, mostly because he really didn't fuck much up and was an awesome dude.
As for Reagan all that comes to mind is:

and

Engi-nerd

Somehow the feminists supported JFK and Clinton, and maybe even Weiner too.

weird.

You're surprised that the gender that survives off of double-standards endorses double-standards for those they favor?

Obama got handed a bad deal when he came into office, but nothing he's done since he's been there has made it any better...which is saying a lot considering he had a majority in both houses of congress. If anything, his policies have led to the current climate off uncertainty that is keeping businesses from investing/hiring/expanding. I know two business owners that aren't hiring because they don't what the healthcare laws are going to cost them, and they don't if/how much their taxes are going to be raised, among other things. Maybe if we'd had elected someone with more experience than "community organizer," there would be someone sitting in the Oval Office right now that would have enough of an understanding of the economy to work with congress to turn things around.

Still, Azelma is right, Presidents get too much blame/credit...the blame/blessing falls on the congress most of the time.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

What really bothers me about this Weiner thing is that his constituents want him to stay, but the people he wasn't elected by are giving him shit. Frankly, whomever the people want to elect should be up to them.

Dvergar /
Quisling

We'll find out how much his constituents want him to stay when he runs for re-election. Until then, it's basically just democrats piling on this guy because they don't need any more negatives in their column.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste