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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:15 pm  
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First off,
Quote:
All this would be obvious to you if you had spent any time studying agriculture, visiting wineries and vineyards, or getting hands-on experience with any aspect of production.


Despite your experience with hobby gardening, you don't know this either and haven't had any experience with the above.

Quote:
This is a field in which CA has a major advantage over France. CA's willingness to experiment and deregulate means that any given winery has a much wider gradient of options available to them.


The majority of California wineries produce only a handful of varieties of grapes, so this point is moot.

Quote:
In France, the "authorities" can mandate only a certain vine is permitted in a certain region.


False. You can grow whatever vine you like (though certain strains are kept within certain wine producing regions due to better soil/temperature/etc for the grapes), but AoC prevents labeling of certain products outside of a region. A carbonated wine can only be called Champagne if it is from Champagne, etc.

Quote:
Furthermore, one of the great advantages the US as a whole and CA in particular has is tremendous diversity of climate. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that many of the most successful agricultural regions in CA are actually not naturally fertile. Many of these regions have no native water supplies and are wholly reliant on aqueducts to bring water hundreds of miles down from the Sierra Nevadas. Now what this means, and the huge advantage it confers, is that producers can actually create optimal environments on what is in essence a blank slate.


This is a terrible practice and not sustainable.


Quote:
If you want objective proof, look at Hollywood. One of Hollywood's enduring strengths as a movie maker is not its community, but the simple fact that within a 500 mile radius of the city is every type of terrain and climate known to man. Films appear shot on site when in reality they merely exploited the contours of the terrain.


Yet the vast majority of films nowadays are shot on location for maximum authenticity.

Quote:
Now, if these cheeses can't do the same, then their problems are entirely of their own making.
[/quote]

Yet they do. Anyone who even remotely considers themselves a foodie will go for the imported cheeses over the American ones. Sure, there are some great creameries stateside (Mt Townsend Creamery, Cypress Grove), but we're crippled in a few ways (ntm that all of the good cheese makers come were trained in Europe), most notably (imo) the ridiculous bans on the usage (and importation) of raw milk goods.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:02 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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So is the honeymoon over?


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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:16 am  
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As an aside, France has particularly varied climates despite its relatively small size.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:30 am  
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Usdk wrote:
So is the honeymoon over?


Probably ended when he agreed with my "racist misogyny," LoL.

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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:05 am  
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Usdk wrote:
So is the honeymoon over?

I'm 95% sure I know what happened.

The spy network is alive and well.

PS Zaryi: Add me on facebook, ya jerk.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:34 am  
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Zaryi wrote:
Yet the vast majority of films nowadays are shot on location for maximum authenticity.


Are you sure about "vast majority"? I don't often pay attention to film locations, but I know Toronto often stands in for New York or other American cities, Hawaii can be any tropical area, and old parts of European cities are pretty much interchangeable.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:13 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
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Zaryi wrote:
Quote:
All this would be obvious to you if you had spent any time studying agriculture, visiting wineries and vineyards, or getting hands-on experience with any aspect of production.


Despite your experience with hobby gardening, you don't know this either and haven't had any experience with the above.


Yes, actually, I have.

Zaryi wrote:
Quote:
This is a field in which CA has a major advantage over France. CA's willingness to experiment and deregulate means that any given winery has a much wider gradient of options available to them.


The majority of California wineries produce only a handful of varieties of grapes, so this point is moot.


Yes, that is true. But the "choice" is still there.

How many new varieties of grape or cheese have come out of CA in the last 40 years?
How many new varieties of grape or cheese have come out of France in the last 40 years?

Zaryi wrote:
Quote:
In France, the "authorities" can mandate only a certain vine is permitted in a certain region.

False. You can grow whatever vine you like (though certain strains are kept within certain wine producing regions due to better soil/temperature/etc for the grapes), but AoC prevents labeling of certain products outside of a region. A carbonated wine can only be called Champagne if it is from Champagne, etc.


False.

Because it is a hybrid variety, cultivation for commercial wines in Europe is restricted by European Union regulation. It is more extensively grown in both the eastern wine growing regions of the United States(commonly grown in Minnesota) as well as Willamette Valley and Canada's Okanagan Valley.

Following the grape's decline in the late 20th century, there was some speculation about the future of the variety, especially after a 1992 Institut National des Appellations d'Origine (INAO) decree that all vines of Baco Blanc were to be uprooted by 2010. However, advocates for the grape variety and its historical role in Armagnac were able to persuade French authorities to continue permitting its use in the distilled wines from the Armagnac region

Zaryi wrote:
Quote:
Furthermore, one of the great advantages the US as a whole and CA in particular has is tremendous diversity of climate. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that many of the most successful agricultural regions in CA are actually not naturally fertile. Many of these regions have no native water supplies and are wholly reliant on aqueducts to bring water hundreds of miles down from the Sierra Nevadas. Now what this means, and the huge advantage it confers, is that producers can actually create optimal environments on what is in essence a blank slate.


This is a terrible practice and not sustainable.

I won't argue that practice is terrible and unsustainable. Still, diversity of climate will continue to be an enduring strength and defeat nativism.

Zaryi wrote:
Quote:
If you want objective proof, look at Hollywood. One of Hollywood's enduring strengths as a movie maker is not its community, but the simple fact that within a 500 mile radius of the city is every type of terrain and climate known to man. Films appear shot on site when in reality they merely exploited the contours of the terrain.


Yet the vast majority of films nowadays are shot on location for maximum authenticity.


Point was about agriculture.

Zaryi wrote:
Quote:
Now, if these cheeses can't do the same, then their problems are entirely of their own making.
Yet they do. Anyone who even remotely considers themselves a foodie will go for the imported cheeses over the American ones. Sure, there are some great creameries stateside (Mt Townsend Creamery, Cypress Grove), but we're crippled in a few ways (ntm that all of the good cheese makers come were trained in Europe), most notably (imo) the ridiculous bans on the usage (and importation) of raw milk goods.


Then it is working as it should and this regulation is not necessary.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:36 am  
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
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Mns wrote:
The spy network is alive and well.

PS Zaryi: Add me on facebook, ya jerk.


Mns wrote:


Mns wrote:
Aestu wrote:
Girl looks fine and at least as attractive as any of the participants or anyone else they might have a chance of mating with. Secure in my initial interpretation of the story.

Don't be mad your e-girlfriend has huge chocolate tits. I'm sure not.


You're a strange and sad person.

Either way, your bullshit is transparent. You don't have a "spy network", and you're not the first loser internet troll to pretend you do. What you have is access to other people's publicly available forum posts and the ears of a very few people who are foolish enough to try to maintain a friendship with a hate-spewing ball of lard.

The very fact that you refer to reading public posts and referring to those few individuals who would be called your friends as a "spy network" demonstrates your pathetic condition.

You don't have a clue about anything of any importance, but you like to pretend you do to pretend you're powerful/relevant when you are neither, and in the hopes others will volunteer the information you don't have because you are too cowardly to ask.

It's not even possible for you to know, because I haven't discussed the events in question with anyone. Since there were no witnesses then that means that if you know you must have heard from Simone. Whether you were told or not, being a loser who shakes people down for the details of their private lives doesn't equate to you being J Edgar Hoover, it just means you're...a strange little loser.

You're not a spymaster, you're a peeping Tom.

You do this with your sex life - you don't have one, but you like to pretend you do by spewing hate about other people's sex lives, taking delight in their misfortunes and trying to tear them down to your level. You do this with your professional and WoW life too - you haven't raided in years and haven't done anything of any merit, so you spew hate about others' lives and try to tear down the accomplishments of your betters.

You do this even in this very thread with food - you subsist largely on garbage and rationalize it, drink anything that raises your BAC enough to make you forget for a moment the reality of your squalid life and pretend to be a wine snob, then despise others who know what they are talking about. That is why you are a loser. It is in the nature of losers to seek company in their misery and to despise their betters.

But go ahead, Mayo. You know all. Tell me what happened.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:11 am  
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:08 pm
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Aestu wrote:
Mns wrote:
The spy network is alive and well.

PS Zaryi: Add me on facebook, ya jerk.


Mns wrote:


Mns wrote:
Aestu wrote:
Girl looks fine and at least as attractive as any of the participants or anyone else they might have a chance of mating with. Secure in my initial interpretation of the story.

Don't be mad your e-girlfriend has huge chocolate tits. I'm sure not.


You're a strange and sad person.

Either way, your bullshit is transparent. You don't have a "spy network", and you're not the first loser internet troll to pretend you do. What you have is access to other people's publicly available forum posts and the ears of a very few people who are foolish enough to try to maintain a friendship with a hate-spewing ball of lard.

The very fact that you refer to reading public posts and referring to those few individuals who would be called your friends as a "spy network" demonstrates your pathetic condition.

You don't have a clue about anything of any importance, but you like to pretend you do to pretend you're powerful/relevant when you are neither, and in the hopes others will volunteer the information you don't have because you are too cowardly to ask.

It's not even possible for you to know, because I haven't discussed the events in question with anyone. Since there were no witnesses then that means that if you know you must have heard from Simone. Whether you were told or not, being a loser who shakes people down for the details of their private lives doesn't equate to you being J Edgar Hoover, it just means you're...a strange little loser.

You're not a spymaster, you're a peeping Tom.

You do this with your sex life - you don't have one, but you like to pretend you do by spewing hate about other people's sex lives, taking delight in their misfortunes and trying to tear them down to your level. You do this with your professional and WoW life too - you haven't raided in years and haven't done anything of any merit, so you spew hate about others' lives and try to tear down the accomplishments of your betters.

You do this even in this very thread with food - you subsist largely on garbage and rationalize it, drink anything that raises your BAC enough to make you forget for a moment the reality of your squalid life and pretend to be a wine snob, then despise others who know what they are talking about. That is why you are a loser. It is in the nature of losers to seek company in their misery and to despise their betters.

But go ahead, Mayo. You know all. Tell me what happened.



Spot on analysis +1


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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:25 am  
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Wow, Maz and Aestu just agreed about something. Isn't that a sign that the Moon is about to hurtle into Earth?

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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:54 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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"i know what happens in a few short months"

'tis all.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:56 am  
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No, it merely means some things are so evident that they are beyond dispute.

But I think that we're losing sight of the big picture.

I'm not a CA patriot. France does a lot of things better than any other nation ever will, and that won't change. Regulation isn't needed to ensure that French producers enjoy not only de facto superiority but a state monopoly. I think that such laws are less threatening, oppressive and unfair to Americans or Eurolanders than to the French themselves - to farmers and botanists and artisans who will inevitably be victimized by arbitrary enforcement of unnecessary and impractical laws.

I'm not a hardened critic of the French way of life. I think the French way of life and thought are on the whole the best the world has to offer, because it is a way of life characterized by dignity, individuality, stability, freedom and quality of life. More importantly, unlike the American Dream, the French way of life is on the whole realistic and internally consistent. The French have their flaws, amongst them a tendency towards bureaucratization and bigotry, and as a people they do not possess the American instinct for fairness. That said, I think we have more to learn from them than them from us, above all else the road to happiness and a good life.

I think that progress can be best achieved by allowing for diversity and interplay of alien ideas. French estates have resisted change for millenia and that won't change any more than it did in the world of Star Trek (bonus points for identifying reference). Allowing outsiders to satisfy the low-end consumer market will only serve to protect against the debasement of French goods by ensuring the removal of the incentive to put quantity over quality, something Americans are supremely good at. And that, in my mind, is the strongest argument against this law.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:29 pm  
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MegaFaggot 5000
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You seem to have such a hard-on for me. Why couldn't you get one for Simone when she came to visit you?


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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:39 pm  
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 Post subject: Re: Wow France....Just Stop It
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:42 pm  
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Mns wrote:
You seem to have such a hard-on for me. Why couldn't you get one for Simone when she came to visit you?


Maybe she wasn't smothered in rooster sauce.

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