Patch 4.3

Meowth · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:24 am

Grimmgor wrote:

Azelma wrote:

"game designers who don't play games"

This surprises me...I figured people who design games would be most likely to play games??

judging by the games, especially the "must play" ones of the past 5 or so years it's not really all that shocking.

not to be all GET OUT OF MY HOBBY HISSSSSSSSSSSS, but since gaming has turned into this mainstream thing that makes more money then any other form of entertainment (i think that's what i read, anyways) quality has gone down the shitter in so many ways.

the fact that patching has gone from tweaking gameplay and fixing minor bugs, maybe a big bug or so, to making a game actually playable out of the box, is pretty sad. way too many bad design choices, disc locked content, horrible DRM, etc.

it's really bad when the BIG BAD PIRATES RUINING THE INDUSTRY BAWWWWWW feel like they've wasted bandwidth on "AAA" games. a guy i know is on the edge about even downloading skyrim due to some of the changes they've made, and he loves elder scrolls as much as i love metroid. he's got something like 1000 hours into morrowind, as an idea.

We got a few good releases though

http://jirachi.imgur.com/witcher_2#hUVS8

ubersampling is sex leg

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:25 am

I honestly think the Dragonwrath drop rate inequity is perfectly fine. And I think it's perfectly fine that 25 mans can build them faster - economy of scale is a logical game mechanic.

Six months of farming for a legendary is not unreasonable. It is a legendary, after all, and 6-9 months is a decent lifetime for a well-designed tier. And I think it's also logical that people should go back to the last tier to keep working on legendaries - guilds have felt compelled to do this with each and every legendary from Thunderfury to Valanyr. So I don't see a problem with guilds continuing to do Firelands while working on Deathwing to get more staves. It is good there is a real incentive to go back and do the last tier, and FL HMs will still be hard in T13.

And I still think 10-mans are for nerds. Nerds in the sense that they are for people who can't play as part of a real team, a going concern, only their buddies.

Whatever individual opinions may be, Blizzard managed to start a fire by doing something they shouldn't have done which was changing the game as a shill for their own petty failings, saying the issue was a desire for scarcity when it's really a transparent effort to make the content last longer. That is what they deserve blame for - copious blame - not the low drop rate.

Necrachilles · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:29 am

Aestu wrote:

And I still think 10-mans are for nerds. Nerds in the sense that they are for people who can't play as part of a real team, a going concern, only their buddies.

I never liked doing 25 mans because it was almost impossible to find 24 competent players. Most players suck.

Besides, I'd rather have fun raiding with friends than raiding with automatons and/or huge pve hero dick heads.

Same goes for PvP though.

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:34 am

Necrachilles wrote:

I never liked doing 25 mans because it was almost impossible to find 24 competent players. Most players suck.

That is the common rationale. But for this to be valid, each realm would have to have at most ten good players per faction. In practice, there are far more than ten players per realm who are of the opinion that most players suck, and there are usually more than ten players who play at any given level of play. It may be hard to find them or bring them on board, but they are there, in the woodwork.

25-mans manage to do this, so they get run as more of a going concern. 10-mans have a way of just becoming a shill for false elitism - cliques who think no one can be as awesome as their little clique yet somehow they aren't progressing at top 100 US level. So 25-man guilds are typically more mature and tolerant, or at least more stable. And what that stability brings is, if nothing else, more raiding and less dealing with churn.

Necrachilles · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:03 am

Aestu wrote:

Necrachilles wrote:

I never liked doing 25 mans because it was almost impossible to find 24 competent players. Most players suck.

That is the common rationale. But for this to be valid, each realm would have to have at most ten good players per faction. In practice, there are far more than ten players per realm who are of the opinion that most players suck, and there are usually more than ten players who play at any given level of play. It may be hard to find them or bring them on board, but they are there, in the woodwork.

25-mans manage to do this, so they get run as more of a going concern. 10-mans have a way of just becoming a shill for false elitism - cliques who think no one can be as awesome as their little clique yet somehow they aren't progressing at top 100 US level. So 25-man guilds are typically more mature and tolerant, or at least more stable. And what that stability brings is, if nothing else, more raiding and less dealing with churn.

I've found elitists in both 10 and 25. More so in 25. 25 man raiders seem to look down upon 10 man raiders.

Hell, my 10 man group of friends I ran with sucked too but I had fun so I didn't care. We actually did better than most guilds did. We saw LK a couple of times when it was progression (read: no buff) before the serious buisness comp 1 got jealous and had our comp torn apart.

Typically, if you do well in 10 mans you're going to do well in 25 mans. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to start raiding again but pugging is pretty much dead and all the 10 mans I've joined have been filled with dicks and the only 25 mans going on are guild runs and I've yet to find a guild that was chill and didn't have the cliques/elitism/asshole ways about them. I can deal with the first two but I refuse to raid with dicks. If that means I'll never get to raid then oh well I guess. It's the same reason I'll never be a Gladiator.

Monotheist · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:20 am

Aestu wrote:

10-mans have a way of just becoming a shill for false elitism - cliques who think no one can be as awesome as their little clique yet somehow they aren't progressing at top 100 US level.

You had fun, admit it

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:25 am

Oh, that's obvious enough, Mono...

Less obvious is that I also had fun with Tempest, Gwen Stefani and yes even Kitten Mafia.
I'd do it all again in a heartbeat. Drama, petty feuding and all.

Monotheist · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:42 am

Oh lord, I forgot about KM lol.

Zaryi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:45 am

An inequity is fine, I just agree with the majority of posters that a 4:1 ratio favoring 25 mans is ridiculous.

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:01 pm

Reading the thread, someone pointed out something very interesting which is that one DPSer in a 10-man is much more significant than a proportionately equal quantity of DPSers in a 25-man. The influence of a DPSer isn't 1:2.5, it's closer to 1:3-4. Excellent examples include things like lava spawns (OS+3/Halion), Maloriak, and valks/spirits (HLK): because the need to focus fire and divide up DPS between different targets is less, the actions of a single DPSer armed with a staff are far more influential than sheer arithmatic would indicate.

From that point of view, the dramatic inequity makes sense for reasons past economy of scale, and the risks of allowing 10-mans to be proportionately equal (casters running pet guilds and disbanding when they get what they want).

Someone else pointed out something that is also very interesting which is that SWTOR delayed their beta the same day this was announced, suggesting Blizzard's intent with this change is to stretch out the the timetable for 4.3/WoWx4.

I also don't mind admitting that if the staff quest were not class restricted it would almost be enough to make me renew sub. Not because I want a legendary - I honestly would care a lot less if it were a sword or board - but because I am still bitter I didn't get Aestu an Atiesh. The same reason I delighted in shaking my glaives and bow at rogues and hunters and tanking with a Valanyr. It would be cool to say, "well I got the staff..."

Zaryi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:05 pm

Yes, I had come to the same realization last night before I passed out, but denying guilds that clear the same content (often having kill dates before the larger guilds) the opportunity to finish a legendary while it's still current is really dumb and unfair.

Also delaying for SWTOR is a bad, bad idea. I can't wait to see the sub loss this quarter.

Jubbergun · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:38 pm

Zaryi wrote:

Also delaying for SWTOR is a bad, bad idea. I can't wait to see the sub loss this quarter.

How are they losing subs for a game that hasn't yet been released? If it hasn't been released, no one can play it, and a subscription isn't necessary.

Your Pal,
Jubber

Usdk · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:42 pm

she means that they delayed the release of the patch to coincide with TOR. which is stupid. I'd put it out a week or two in advance of TOR, at least. Keep them interested in your game, not the other.

Jubbergun · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:45 pm

Oooooh, I totally misread that. Yeah, given the track record, if I have to choose between a game I just dropped and a new game that looks like it doesn't suck...Blizzard is fucked.

That's not even counting how I hold a grudge and will never buy their bullshit again because I hate their face.

Your Pal,
Jubber

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:43 pm

Jubbergun wrote:

That's not even counting how I hold a grudge and will never buy their bullshit again because I hate their face.

Sorry, it came to mind.

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