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I didn't realize forced charity was a function of "small government."

It's also funny how people who are all for unrestrained government intervention into every facet of our lives cry when they get that for which they've been asking. You want the government giving handouts, other people want accountability from the people receiving them, your wants have met in the middle with their wants, and this is what you get. That's the system for which you advocate, and what results from it. If you want to blame someone for it, don't blame "small government types," go look in a mirror.

Until then, fire up the labs, test all the students, wards of the state, government employees, and government contractors. Piss-jars for everyone!!!

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Who - by name - are you talking to? And in what respect do you believe their stance on this issue is hypocritical?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

It isn't really up for debate that many of our charitable/welfare organizations in the U.S. are flawed. We should just model them after whatever are the most successful. I haven't looked into it in like 5 years but when I wrote a paper on the welfare system I remember that many religious programs actually showed much better results. Not because they had requirements like go to mass or praise god, but because they actively sent out people to check on recipients and make sure they are progressing and helping them to do so.

Edit: meant to reply, not quote

Drominar, Petrous, Chronowrench

The day charity works is the day people pay taxes on a voluntary basis.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I just find it hilarious that taking a chunk of your paycheck to contribute to the public good is basically tyranny to some people, but yet the same people are completely behind the forced drug tests of people for the main reason that they're poor.

Can we get drug tests for CEOs and bankers? I mean, I'd be much more worried about some coked-up wall street investor that can demolish someone's savings with a single mistake than someone that works at K-Mart who gets high on a daily basis.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

If we're going to drug test welfare recipients, we should drug test anyone who works at a job that is in any way subsidized by the government, or any public safety positions, like air traffic controllers or EMS/fire/police(though I'm sure those 3 are drug tested) just to be fair and consistent.

Or we could just not drug test anyone, because its nobody's business what you do in your offtime except yours (The only exclusion to this rule is drinking/getting high on the job, which will work itself out one way or another).

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

I think that it's no one's business as long as its legal yes, I'd agree.

What if its legal status/categorization is absurd and completely hypocritical considering the legal status of other drugs/substances?


In certain cases, I agree, I wouldn't want my taxpayer dollars going to someone on welfare who would use it to by coke or heroin or something insane.


However, think about this...are they testing these people for alcohol in their systems? Who's to say they aren't using that welfare to buy beer and liquor? Is that fine because those substances are legal? They are still not cheap, and still mind altering and generally unhealthy for you. The money spent on a six pack should still probably go to get food or school supplies for their kids or something.

What about tobacco? It's proven it causes cancer and various other ailments (these people on wellfare will clearly need support for their medical bills from the state or some other organization. I doubt they have their own healthcare in most cases). Are they being tested for nicotine? Is it okay for them to use the money to buy cigs because the government says it's legal?

See how easy it is to have a blurry line with these things?

I'm glad to be able to say Mayo is spot on. But, and there is a but...


I'd like the money I'm working for to not go towards someone's dimebags.

That's it. That's all there is to it.

Now like I said, I agree completely with the upper quote. I'm a-ok with people doing whatever they want with their money in pursuit of whatever they consider happiness. Welfare is given though, by everybody's account, as a safety net to ensure supply of essential needs of the downtrodden. I can't figure out how marijuana is an essential need, unless it's actually being used as medicine. That gets into 'what if' scenarios though, so I won't go there.

We trade our boss our labor for money without restrictions. Those on welfare aren't trading anything for money, and so their money comes with restrictions. It's kind of the whole basis for arguments against government providing something (or worse, taking over the providing outright), because when it does, we become beholden to it.


They should, assuming it's cost effective. It would probably be far easier and cost effective though to just start having all liquor sellers to use those scanny deals they use on my ID to... well I dunno if it confirms it's legit or what. But have them reject ID's of those on welfare.

As long as its a law, it should be prosecuted as a law. There are probably people who feel the same way about coke that you do about pot, so lets not go that way.

Maybe they could just issue debit cards that will raise a flag if used to buy blah blah blah or used to get cash money.

I'm pretty sure they already do this with food stamps.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

They still get around it by selling them. But at least SOMEONE is eating with the money.

This bothers me less than the fact that they're trying to expand food stamps to cover fast food. I don't think it's necessary and it certainly contradicts everything we are trying to do in healthcare in terms of primary prevention. It allows families who already can't afford food to eat fatty, processed foods that contribute to poor health. This lands them in a clinic or hospital for hypertension/diabetes/heart disease where they are most likely using government assistance for healthcare. So it falls on the taxpayers twice.

s^ | Kay

punishing people because they're poor, no other government hand-outs require drug tests.

drug laws are retarded in the first place. It's ok to spend all your welfare money on alcohol or porn or whatever else, but not on weed.

Yes food stamps for fast food is dumb, but have fun finding a grocery store in poor neighborhoods and inner cities. Even if you did find one, the cost of 'healthy' food is too high to feed a family on food stamps, so you end up buying cheaper food loaded with sodium and generally no more healthy than the fast food.

But hey, why reform a system when you can just burn it to the ground. Fuck them people, they're not me, and they're not PROFIT.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Its already happening by food stamps being spent on chips/pop/sweets/etc. I don't condone it at all, but this isn't a new thing.

Then again, if a head of lettuce cost less than a cheeseburger, this might be less of a problem.

EDIT: On the other hand, it may be a necessary evil. There are people out there that work so much and get paid so little (RON PAUL) that they might not have the cash, time, or energy after work to make meals from scratch.

I was at Rally's yesterday and I noticed that you could get a box of chicken nuggets and fries for $2. I'm pretty sure the only thing that would be good for you for that cheap would be a bowl of rice and beans. Guess which one takes less time and has more flavor?

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]