*cough*

Aestu · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:02 am

Eturnalshift wrote:

Jubbergun wrote:

There are probably a few groups on the liberal side of the spectrum that President Obama would rather not actively support him, as well.

I remember some individuals that had some pretty radical positions and ideology tied to Obama when he was running for office... the William Ayers, Rev. Wrights and Tony Rezkos, to name a few. I also remember a few people around here pretending like associations and relationships didn't matter when vetting a person for President.

Funny how it matters now.

Evidence?

Aestu · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:20 am

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh ... -%28A3P%29

Quote:

On the campaign trail, I can discuss issues that Ron Paul believes he cannot, but I still want to maintain the moral high-ground in defense of our people and the Constitution. I believe this is why you considered me for the A3P ticket. Supported with the right tools, I will prove my worth. Thank you and keep up the great work, Merlin -------------------- **TEACHING/COACHING RACISTS AND WHITE SUPREMACISTS TO APPEAL TO THE MAINSTREAM**

Quote:

To: Harvey ([email protected]) From: Jamie Kelso ([email protected])
Text: Dear WhiteNewsNow Members

That's our own Sr. Mod, Quinn, with the red hair listening to Ron Paul in St. Petersburg, Florida after the Republican presidential debate there. We had a banner plane by day and a lighted plane by night, a navy of boats in the water, and roaring revolutionaries marching, oblivious of the rain that day. A day Quinn will never forget. I've forgotten the date, but Quinn will remember. The woman in front is signing. Ron signs. If you watch closely you'll see Ron sign "I love you" to the deaf in our audiences. My own opinion is that the White revolution has already begun, and that the good White folks like Quinn that fill these Ron Paul crowds and marching armies ARE the start of that revolution. They're not the end of that revolution, obviously. But they are the start. And the end will come out of that start. Any of you who have been in the middle of one of these marching masses of 15,000 White folks cheering their lungs out has found out by being IN such a fired-up mass of kinsmen that these folks aren't rehearsing a revolution, they are launching one. They have the door wide open to us to help steer it from within. They need us...and we need them. That's the way our family should be. My goodness, those of you that are posting especially, can be proud of your work in earning a #37,483 U.S. traffic rank from Alexa today. The lower that number gets, the better. The #1 website in the U.S. is Google. If a few more of you put in some easy-to-do warm-and-fuzzy posts we can climb even higher. This is a different kind of website. No one has ever built one like this before. This ISN'T a website where the already-converted share gossip and fights with each other, neither of which are attractive to our family, friends, and neighbors who are trying to find out what White Nationalism is.

Quote:

I got another leftist website to publicly promote crossover voting for Ron Paul. I hope you are visiting leftist sites and telling them to vote for Ron Paul to give Obama an easier opponent.

Quote:

We're being a BRIDGE, a badly needed bridge. A bridge that was missing. In fact, more specifically, we're being the hardest part of any bridge to engineer...the center span. We're being a bridge between people who ARE welcome to post on a Ron Paul Revolution-type site but AREN'T welcomed at some of our sites...and people who ARE welcome to post at all of our sites but AREN'T welcomed at Ron Paul sites. I made that sound more complicated than it is. Here's another way of painting the picture. Over the last three years I have been all over the country, with a number of your fellow Sr. Mods, at huge Ron Paul-type, Tea Party-type, End the Fed-type patriot rallies that are (no doubt about it) the start of our revolution. And during those same years I've helped organize plenty of our own much smaller events, again with a number of your fellow Sr. Mods, all over our country. We've been part of a too-small (I think) number of folks who have spent lots of times rowing back and forth between these two groups of great White folks...a mainland (so to speak with a huge number of Ron Paul folks all over it) and a WN island (with a much smaller number of us on it).

http://reasonradionetwork.com/20111209/ ... -2007-2008

Quote:

In 2007 and 2008 it was electrifying to be part of what the Ron Paul Revolution accomplished, all the way up to the Republican Convention in the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, Minnesota. Jamie Kelso had the privilege of being the organizer of the Ron Paul support rally that lasted four days continuously at the entrance of the Xcel Center. But the 2012 Paul campaign has been building on the 2008 base for four years, and now has a shot at the LEAD in some early primary states, including the Iowa caucus coming up January 3. In his December 9, 2011 show Kelso talks about Ron Paul’s stunning leap into second place in Iowa polls, behind only the despicable chameleon/man Newt Gingrich.

Quote:

Kelso invites patriots to add their support by joining the A3P at American3rdPosition.com.

Do you accept that as a headshot, Weena?

Dvergar · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:22 am

Eturnal nailed it. A pastor who says a few inflammatory things is totally the same as supporting a group who exist solely as a racist organisation. And he's also right that there's no difference between those people supporting you, and you supporting them. It's really all the same thing.

Aestu · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:36 am

Reading through the A3P website:

They are actually correct on many economic, social and educational issues. I firmly believe this is why American politics has gone into decline - because, beginning with the Vietnam War era, legitimate causes became increasingly associated and conflated with bigotry.

The real reason for this, in my opinion, is the racist venom that has long coursed through American society, on all levels. Pure racism and xenophobia led conservatives (I'm using this word in the traditional and not contemporary sense) to support McCarthyism, the Vietnam War, reactionary social and economic policies, and oppression of black people. When those causes were successfully opposed by people who held other, less legitimate views, the legitimate conservative viewpoint was completely discredited.

Since the 1960s, this hasn't changed. Legitimate conservatism is still right where it threw itself, off the precipice of McCarthyism, jimboism, reactionary ideology, and racism.

People like Eturnalshift and Ron Paul are the proof. People who are so unable to defeat their own bigotry that they reduce the mainstream to irrelevance, by dragging down any serious discussion with bigotry-driven fallacies. But also people like Azelma - deeply racist people who cannot find the strength to overcome the fear and ignorance that underscores all bigotry - they cannot impose moral discipline on themselves, so it must be implosed by PC and legal compulsion. These are the more numerous and ultimately more deleterious type.

I believe this in turn is driven fundamentally by greed - by the lack of any real moral code in this country other than constitutional ideals typically not associated with anyone but white folks, and the worship of making a buck. The whole system of bullying and compulsion that the civil rights movement has metasized into over the years is driven simply by the fact that economic pressure is ultimately the only form of pressure in this country, because, for many Americans, greed, disguised as "the free market", " the American dream" etc, is the only lever of control. These people will not alter their views unless their wallet is threatened, by getting fired for racist statements or behavior.

And by the same token, both racism and the inherent unfairness of American society are major driving forces in the realities of who has wound up with what - but American greed refuses to consider this. So again, compulsion takes the place of moral courage. Social Security instead of real constructive programs that offend some people's egos.

Greed and bigotry are two American evils whose sum has become greater than their parts.

It will probably take several centuries, if ever, for the cycle of bigotry and folly to run its course, just as it did in Europe over the centuries since the Middle Ages.

And we might yet turn out like Greece or Italy - a burned-out, screwed-up country oppressed by our own maladjusted cultural attitudes. Honestly I think that is most likely. I think this free-market bullshit will be to America what cronyism and fakelaki are to Italy and Greece - not merely a political idea but an entire way of life: ancient, unquestioned, and totally dysfunctional.

Eturnalshift · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:07 am

jubber wrote:

There are probably a few groups on the liberal side of the spectrum that President Obama would rather not actively support him, as well.

Eturnal wrote:

I remember some individuals that had some pretty radical positions and ideology tied to Obama when he was running for office... the William Ayers, Rev. Wrights and Tony Rezkos, to name a few. I also remember a few people around here pretending like associations and relationships didn't matter when vetting a person for President.

Funny how it matters now.

Dvergar wrote:

Eturnal nailed it. A pastor who says a few inflammatory things is totally the same as supporting a group who exist solely as a racist organisation. And he's also right that there's no difference between those people supporting you, and you supporting them. It's really all the same thing.

I doubt you're being serious since that's not what I was saying.

During the campaign Obama caught fire for his past associations and he tried his hardest to disassociate himself with those questionable figures... which is exactly what Jubber said Obama would want to do. As proof of this, Obama decided to withdraw himself from Rev. Wright's church AFTER the shit storm was raised over things Rev. Wright said. It was politically expedient for Obama to withdraw from the Church and that's why he did it after sitting in the congregation for two decades (I think that was the right time figure.)

Maybe I missed the part where the conclusive proof that Ron Paul was supporting a racist organization was linked... and until I see that proof I'm just going to let it be a non-issue. Constantly playing the race card and calling everyone a racist without reliable proof isn't helpful dialog and it doesn't help stop the rhetoric you guys are constantly bitching about. As much as I was able to find there are a couple racist people and organizations that support Ron Paul. Big fucking deal. The New Black Panther party endorsed President Obama during his 2008 Presidential Campaign. "Yea, well... the President didn't have his picture taken in the company of racists like Paul did with this A3P guys!" Back in 2007, Obama, Bill and Hillary Clinton attended a march to commemorate the 1965 March from Selma. Thousands of people showed up to the event... but there were racists in the mix. Both the New Black Panther Party and Obama spoke from the same podium.

During the actual march Obama was seen walking near the leads of the New Black Panther Party. Sure, Obama was a couple steps in front but they were still in the same frame. (Obama is center frame. NBPP guys are just to the left of him in the image, a step or two behind him)

Obviously, this means that Obama supports them and their racist message! After all, Obama did take awhile to remove the NBPP endorsement from his website and he was reluctant to reject Farakhan's endorsement.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

Seriously though. Ron Paul personally meets hundreds or thousands of people each day and probably get's his picture taken with a large number of them... and I'm sure he has a huge staff of people that work for him of varying race, religion, belief, socio-economic background, etc. Unless Ron Paul explicitly states that he supports a group for their racist beliefs (and not for some economic or other sensible reasoning) then we shouldn't say the man is a racist. Obama wasn't a racist for going to that rally and being near the NBPP, nor was he a racist for some racists supporting his candidacy, or for continuing to support a man who dismissed charges against the NBPP (Eric Holder).

Mns · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:17 am

Eturnalshift wrote:

Maybe I missed the part where the conclusive proof that Ron Paul was supporting a racist organization was linked... and until I see that proof I'm just going to let it be a non-issue.

Its actually 3 posts above this one.

Aestu · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:49 am

The Black Panthers are not comparable to white supremacist groups.

In another thread, didn't you say that no association or implied viewpoint short of violence would offend you? hmm. I guess all bets are off when colored people are involved.

Usdk · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:49 am

Black supremacists are completely different from white supremacists.

Nailed it.

Mns · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:24 pm

Usdk wrote:

Black supremacists are completely different from white supremacists.

Nailed it.

IIRC, the black panthers were a sort of police force created by inner city communities, whereas things like the KKK and right-wing militia groups were created for the extermination and subjugation of anyone who isn't a white, male protestant.

Usdk · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:26 pm

the KKK was originally running around beating the shit out of guys who beat their wives.

Eventually(quickly? after the civil war?) it was perverted towards evil.

What the BPP WAS is not what it IS, and what it IS is unacceptable.

Jubbergun · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:28 pm

Mns wrote:

Eturnalshift wrote:

Maybe I missed the part where the conclusive proof that Ron Paul was supporting a racist organization was linked... and until I see that proof I'm just going to let it be a non-issue.

Its actually 3 posts above this one.

I haven't (and probably won't) combed through that whole TL;DR Aestu linked, but all I've seen is a bunch of correspondence between these guys regarding their support for Ron Paul, having met him at campaign events, and 'tricking' liberals (who do have common ground with some of Ron Paul's views) into endorsing/voting for Ron Paul. What I have not yet seen is anything from Ron Paul to these people...not even so much as a campaign form letter thanking them for contributions. This is probably why this "important story" hasn't hit mainstream media outlets or Foxnews yet...which it totally would. There are a lot of people on the left and the right who would like Ron Paul to just go the fuck away, and being affiliated with this bunch would do the trick.

Your Pal,
Jubber

Aestu · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:38 pm

What? Willful ignorance from a Ron Paul supporter?

Jubbergun · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:39 pm

Mns wrote:

IIRC, the black panthers were a sort of police force created by inner city communities, whereas things like the KKK and right-wing militia groups were created for the extermination and subjugation of anyone who isn't a white, male protestant.

I think you may be a bit confused about the people you're talking about...

Replace the black speaker/audience with a white speaker/audience.
Replace the picture being waved about with one of Timoth McVeigh.
Replace the references to the Koran with references to the Bible.

These are exactly the same kind of people you're worked up about Ron Paul (allegedly and/or potentially) affiliating with, right down to the extreme distrust of government and racial/theological hatred, the only difference between them is the color of their skin.

Aestu wrote:

What? Willful ignorance from a Ron Paul supporter?

Give me something to willfully ignore. So far all I've seen is bupkiss. So a fringe group of weirdos like Ron Paul. If I saw the same group of e-mails coming from the ELF about President Obama, it wouldn't make him guilty of anything, either. Show me where Ron Paul is actively seeking to affiliate with these people, not just where the asshats are talking about him or attending Ron Paul events that are open to the public.

Your Pal,
Jubber

Mns · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:42 pm

Jubbergun wrote:

New Black Panther Party

Wikipedia wrote:

In 1989, a group calling itself the "New Black Panther Party" was formed in Dallas, Texas. Ten years later, the NBPP became home to many former Nation of Islam members when the chairmanship was taken by Khalid Abdul Muhammad.

The Anti-Defamation League and The Southern Poverty Law Center consider the New Black Panthers as a hate group.[87] Members of the original Black Panther Party have insisted that this New Black Panther Party is illegitimate and have strongly objected that there "is no new Black Panther Party".[88]

Aestu · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:49 pm

Jubbergun wrote:

Give me something to willfully ignore. So far all I've seen is bupkiss.

Jubbergun wrote:

I haven't (and probably won't) combed through that whole TL;DR Aestu linked, but all I've seen is a bunch of correspondence between these guys regarding their support for Ron Paul...What I have not yet seen is anything from Ron Paul to these people...

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