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 Post subject: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:41 pm  
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Falcon PUNCH! Faggot
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Our recent talent calculator changes led to some players asking questions about how character and item stats were changing, because some spell and talent tooltips suggest that changes are coming. We compiled this list to attempt to explain more of what’s coming in Mists of Pandaria. First of all, please note that we actually aren’t making many stat changes compared to the ones we made in Cataclysm (“armor penetration -- gone!”). Second, the stuff below can get a little technical. If you’re not into the subtle nuance of gear itemization, then don’t worry about it -- you don’t need to be to enjoy the expansion -- but we know there are plenty of you who enjoy some nuts and bolts talk, so here we go.

Spell Resistance•Spell resistance is gone. There are no buffs that improve it and there shouldn’t be much, if any, spell resist gear left. We always thought the system was hard to understand and we weren’t getting much gameplay out of it. Now taking a step back, we can imagine how to develop a game where you’d want various forms of resist gear for certain situations and opponents. Resist gear could potentially be interesting, but it isn’t currently in World of Warcraft -- the game has just been moving away from that sort of thing for years.

•In the absence of spell resistance, there is no need for spell penetration on gear, so we’ll remove it as well.

Hit and Expertise•We still think having stats that can be capped is a good game design. Rather than focusing solely on stacking your best stat, you have to decide how valuable it is to hit your target before you go back to stacking your best stat. However, we are making some changes.

•Hit and spell hit will no longer be separate stats. The hit stat negates melee miss and spell miss.

•Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.

•Expertise will be listed as a percentage, just like hit, instead of having an intermediary stat.

•We are normalizing hit with expertise, so that 1% of each stat will require the same amount of rating.

•We are normalizing melee and spell hit, so that spell hit is equal to miss plus dodge.
•Against an equal level creature: 6% spell miss, 3% melee miss, 3% dodge, 3% parry (from the front only), 3% block (from the front only).

•Against a +1 level creature: 9% spell miss, 4.5% melee miss, 4.5% dodge, 4.5% parry (from the front only), 4.5% Block (from the front only).

•Against a +2 level creature: 12% spell miss, 6% melee miss, 6% dodge, 6% parry (from the front only), 6% Block (from the front only).

•Against a +3/boss level creature: 15% spell miss, 7.5% melee miss, 7.5% dodge, 7.5% parry (from the front only), 7.5% block (from the front only).

•Ranged attacks will be able to be dodged. Hunters will benefit from expertise and will have it on their gear, which will also allow hunters and Enhancement shaman to share gear more easily.



Block
• The chance to block will be handled by a separate combat roll for each attack that is not avoided. In other words, we first determine if an attack misses, or is dodged or parried. If it is not, then the attack has a chance to be blocked.

•This gives block a consistent value, regardless of avoidance. Currently block becomes more valuable the more you have.

•Block will also have diminishing returns, much like dodge and parry. This doesn’t mean that the value of block will go down as you get more block. It means that it won’t go up by as much when you get more block.

•We don’t expect Protection warriors or paladins to get “block capped” other than during temporary effects, such as mastery procs on trinkets. Block tanks will be balanced around this change. Our intent is to make playing block tanks more fun, not to nerf them.

•Also notice how Shield Block and Shield of the Righteous have changed in Mists.

Criticals
•All spells and abilities will crit for double damage, baseline. There are a few exceptions where crits can get larger, but the default is x 2.0 for everyone.

•This means that Enhancement shaman spells and rogue poisons will crit for double damage. Rogue poisons will also use the melee hit chance.

Resilience• We are renaming this stat to “Defense (PvP)” or possibly “PvP Defense.” All players will have 30% base Defense, the same way all characters have some base Stamina.

•PvP gear will have Defense on it, as well as a new stat, “Power (PvP).” Power increases the damage you do to other players as well as the healing you do to other players in PvP situations.

• If you have a lot of Power, you’ll do more damage to other players, but they likely have Defense as well. If you fight players in lots of PvE gear, they’ll take more damage. Likewise, a player in PvE gear won’t have enough Power to effectively penetrate your Defense.

•The names PvP Power and PvP Defense may not be final, but we’re leaning towards going with stat names that are obviously PvP-related, rather than “fluffier” names that might not be as easy to grasp. We want it to be clear to players that neither Power nor Defense have any relevance when fighting creatures, such as in dungeons or raids.

•PvP gear will be lower in item level than PvE gear of an equivalent tier, however the Power and Defense stats will make sure that PvP gear is more powerful in PvP (both offensively and defensively) than PvE gear. In our budgeting system, the PvP stats will be free rather than causing other stats, such as Strength or haste, to be smaller as a result of including Power or Defense.

•The goal of this change is to make it easier for a PvP player to participate in PvE, or for a PvE player to get started in PvP. Currently, we feel it is too large a barrier to go from one to the other, and the result has been that we see more and more players choosing to focus exclusively on only PvP or PvE. In earlier expansions, it was more feasible to use PvE gear in Arenas or Battlegrounds until you acquired the more useful PvP gear. The same was true of being able to use your PvP gear in a dungeon or raid until you acquired something better. In Cataclysm, stepping into PvP with no PvP gear would result in a player being so ineffective that it was difficult to even make progress towards acquiring PvP gear.

•For the higher-end of PvP or PvE (say Gladiators or heroic raiders), we believe those players will still gravitate towards the dedicated PvP or PvE gear. It is the players who are working towards those two end games that will benefit more from some cross over.

That’s a lot of information, and it probably sounds more set-in-stone than it really is. We’ll continue to iterate as players poke holes in our ideas, tell us what is working out and what isn’t, and finally get to experience it first hand in beta.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:42 pm  
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Falcon PUNCH! Faggot
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All in all seems like it should help with keeping PvE gear out of PvP.


I think they're getting way too complicated though and should honestly just cave and do a spell set for players and one for NPCs.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:43 pm  
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"•Ranged attacks will be able to be dodged. Hunters will benefit from expertise and will have it on their gear, which will also allow hunters and Enhancement shaman to share gear more easily."

I don't like it!


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:45 pm  
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Was hoping this would be value slashes. Don't want to see 500k health next expansion, I really would love to seem them reduce values drastically across the board.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:04 pm  
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Falcon PUNCH! Faggot
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Drominar wrote:
Was hoping this would be value slashes. Don't want to see 500k health next expansion, I really would love to seem them reduce values drastically across the board.

They were talking about that. I hope they drop it like they said they wanted to.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:15 am  
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I'm pretty on board with this power/defense thing, because PvE gear has no place in PvP.

Aside from that, on the one hand I appreciate that ranged attacks can finally be dodged, which they should have patched in seven fucking years ago. On the other hand, it was always funny to me that hunters could shit on feral druids as hard as they do.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:19 am  
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Necrachilles wrote:
Drominar wrote:
Was hoping this would be value slashes. Don't want to see 500k health next expansion, I really would love to seem them reduce values drastically across the board.

They were talking about that. I hope they drop it like they said they wanted to.



Yes please. No more solo'ing KT and seeing 500 Ashes of Al'ar, it makes mine less awesome :(


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:26 am  
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Stupid Schlemiel
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It sounds a lot like what swtor has done. Except power and defense pvp are the same stat and makes healers in pvp gear god tier.

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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:29 am  
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Necrachilles wrote:
Drominar wrote:
Was hoping this would be value slashes. Don't want to see 500k health next expansion, I really would love to seem them reduce values drastically across the board.

They were talking about that. I hope they drop it like they said they wanted to.

I think they're too gutless to do that. I saw the thread, and some people posting in it were APPALLED at the idea that their damage might go down.

Am i the only one who doesn't ever pay attention to my stats between expansions? I remember milestones, like the first time i ever crit for 1k in vanilla. First time i hit 10k in Wrath, crap like that kinda resonates a little. But if they released MoP tomorrow, and i hit level 90, and my biggest attack crit for 1500 i wouldn't even blink, i'd keep on killing shit and progressing.

Shit is out of control. I told them, ad nauseum, around when TBC came out that their i level per tier jumps were too fucking high. And then with each xpac instead of starting below the max tier of the prior expansion they had you exceeding Sunwell loot almost instantly.

They're not intelligent people, and i don't think they have the balls to do what they need to do.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:37 am  
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Yeah i mad.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:52 am  
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Spacehunter wrote:
And then with each xpac instead of starting below the max tier of the prior expansion they had you exceeding Sunwell loot almost instantly.

Wrath wasn't nearly as bad as TBC for this. I remember hearing about people giving up their thunderfuries at 62. I remember starting to slowly swap out my TBC gear at around 78ish and I wore the t6 shoulders until I got t7 from naxx.

EDIT: They probably stagger the gear levels in the xpacs so much so people don't start downing raids in the first couple weeks and have to farm gear out, thus dragging out subs.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:44 am  
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Mns wrote:
Wrath wasn't nearly as bad as TBC for this.


Uh, actually it was way worse. The difference between T7 and T11 was vastly greater than the difference between T4/Spellfire and T6/T6.5. Even more so for PvP gear.

I agree 100% with Goibon. They don't have the guts to fix WoW's problems.

Some of the idea - like normalizing the hit/expertise/spell hit coefficients - makes sense, but by and large, the only thing they're really interested in normalizing is those mages that socket expertise with people who aren't retarded.

Did anyone read that interview with the guy who designed the Aggra questline? "We wanted the questline to be playable by people in full raid gear, and people in greens, and solo players, and in groups, and be reasonably simple, and be interesting and epic." So they wind up making arguably the shittiest questline in the history of WoW, that absolutely everyone hates. Go figure.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:56 am  
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Aestu wrote:
Uh, actually it was way worse. The difference between T7 and T11 was vastly greater than the difference between T4/Spellfire and T6/T6.5. Even more so for PvP gear.

Spacehunter's talking about (I think) the scaling of gear between expansions, not different tiers of gear in the same xpac. T3 to T4 wasn't nearly as gradual as T6 to T7.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:12 am  
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Mns wrote:
Aestu wrote:
Uh, actually it was way worse. The difference between T7 and T11 was vastly greater than the difference between T4/Spellfire and T6/T6.5. Even more so for PvP gear.

Spacehunter's talking about (I think) the scaling of gear between expansions, not different tiers of gear in the same xpac. T3 to T4 wasn't nearly as gradual as T6 to T7.

This.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Stat Changes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:05 am  
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Mns wrote:
Spacehunter's talking about (I think) the scaling of gear between expansions, not different tiers of gear in the same xpac. T3 to T4 wasn't nearly as gradual as T6 to T7.


Uh, no. Level 60 drops continued to be viable well into TBC. I raided with people who killed Kael still wearing their T3. A lot of people did heroics and Kara in their T2. Level 70 drops were trash by 76-78.

Nef trinket didn't become obsolete until Illidan; the C'thun ring/Ring of Spell Power (from MC) remained good for a very long time. A lot of BWL loot (melee stat rings, spellpower pieces) didn't become obsolete until late heroics/Kara at the earliest.

Thunderfury? The first absolute upgrade for TF was the mace off Lurker. TF was considered only slightly and situationally inferior to Sun Eater. No one dropped TF at 62. What would you replace it with, anyway?

Honestly I think you're trolling.


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