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 Post subject: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:10 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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You no doubt have heard about this shooter who opened fire during the Batman premiere in Colorado ( http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati ... 5577.story )

I think the media definitely plays a part in it. Think about the Virginia Tech shootings...what did that guy do? He sent his manifesto, complete with pictures etc to NBC. What did NBC do? Published them. That's what he wanted.

This Batman screening shooter...he now gets his name all over the media, up in infamy. It's what he wanted.

etc. etc.


How do you stop it though? The media wants ratings. They want the $$$$.

One comment on the YouTube video suggests we bring back public executions/hangings. Perhaps seeing a shooter get hung and void his bowels would deter people. Seems kinda brutal though.


Azelma

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Last edited by Azelma on Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:00 pm  
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Feckless Fool
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i wish people would stop giving this shit attention. we get a bunch of people who make petitions and "care" and then 3 days later don't remember what happened.
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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:04 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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whatever happened to just "batshit bonkers" ?


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 Post subject: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:21 pm  
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Str8 Actin Dude
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It wouldn't deter people. Death is death. They are crazy. They won't be around to give a shit.

I think the answer can't be realistically conveyed in a single post. Treating mental illnesses (effectively), improving social conditions, implementing gun control policies that work, curbing school / peer bullying and I'm probably missing a few important courses of action here as well, but all of these are necessary.

People kill for different reasons. Some just want attention, some do so out of anger, some are legitimately fearful for whatever reason, etc.

You can't reduce all violent crime without addressing all the contributing factors. It's really easy to just blame video games and Marilyn Manson and rack up votes because it sounds good in a speech. Implementing real policies, with the intent of enacting actual change for the better...that takes leadership.


Brawlsack

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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:42 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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React is 100% right.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:06 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Battletard wrote:
It wouldn't deter people. Death is death. They are crazy. They won't be around to give a shit.

I think the answer can't be realistically conveyed in a single post. Treating mental illnesses (effectively), improving social conditions, implementing gun control policies that work, curbing school / peer bullying and I'm probably missing a few important courses of action here as well, but all of these are necessary.

People kill for different reasons. Some just want attention, some do so out of anger, some are legitimately fearful for whatever reason, etc.

You can't reduce all violent crime without addressing all the contributing factors. It's really easy to just blame video games and Marilyn Manson and rack up votes because it sounds good in a speech. Implementing real policies, with the intent of enacting actual change for the better...that takes leadership.


Good points...and this touches on the fact that you can't just say something like "okay ban guns outright, that'll fix it" or "hang em in the streets, that'll scare everyone"

If you're sick, you don't just treat symptoms one by one...you need to go to what's causing the illness.

That said, would it be safer if they took steps like...idk, intense mandatory psychiatric screenings for anyone trying to get a gun?

Also, I do think the media plays a part in it...if you compare countries that have had many mass-shootings...America's rather high on the list, no? Why is that?


Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:23 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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American society is unstable, lacks social institutions, and is built on a lot of unrealistic beliefs and assumptions.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:34 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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TL,DR for most of you faggots but actually a pretty interesting read, written by Marilyn Manson.

Quote:
Columbine: Whose Fault Is It?

by Marilyn Manson

It is sad to think that the first few people on earth needed no books, movies, games or music to inspire cold-blooded murder. The day that Cain bashed his brother Abel's brains in, the only motivation he needed was his own human disposition to violence. Whether you interpret the Bible as literature or as the final word of whatever God may be, Christianity has given us an image of death and sexuality that we have based our culture around. A half-naked dead man hangs in most homes and around our necks, and we have just taken that for granted all our lives. Is it a symbol of hope or hopelessness? The world's most famous murder-suicide was also the birth of the death icon -- the blueprint for celebrity. Unfortunately, for all of their inspiring morality, nowhere in the Gospels is intelligence praised as a virtue.

A lot of people forget or never realize that I started my band as a criticism of these very issues of despair and hypocrisy. The name Marilyn Manson has never celebrated the sad fact that America puts killers on the cover of Time magazine, giving them as much notoriety as our favorite movie stars. From Jesse James to Charles Manson, the media, since their inception, have turned criminals into folk heroes. They just created two new ones when they plastered those dipshits Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris' pictures on the front of every newspaper. Don't be surprised if every kid who gets pushed around has two new idols.

We applaud the creation of a bomb whose sole purpose is to destroy all of mankind, and we grow up watching our president's brains splattered all over Texas. Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised. Does anyone think the Civil War was the least bit civil? If television had existed, you could be sure they would have been there to cover it, or maybe even participate in it, like their violent car chase of Princess Di. Disgusting vultures looking for corpses, exploiting, fucking, filming and serving it up for our hungry appetites in a gluttonous display of endless human stupidity.

When it comes down to who's to blame for the high school murders in Littleton, Colorado, throw a rock and you'll hit someone who's guilty. We're the people who sit back and tolerate children owning guns, and we're the ones who tune in and watch the up-to-the-minute details of what they do with them. I think it's terrible when anyone dies, especially if it is someone you know and love. But what is more offensive is that when these tragedies happen, most people don't really care any more than they would about the season finale of Friends or The Real World. I was dumbfounded as I watched the media snake right in, not missing a teardrop, interviewing the parents of dead children, televising the funerals. Then came the witch hunt.
Man's greatest fear is chaos. It was unthinkable that these kids did not have a simple black-and-white reason for their actions. And so a scapegoat was needed. I remember hearing the initial reports from Littleton, that Harris and Klebold were wearing makeup and were dressed like Marilyn Manson, whom they obviously must worship, since they were dressed in black. Of course, speculation snowballed into making me the poster boy for everything that is bad in the world. These two idiots weren't wearing makeup, and they weren't dressed like me or like goths. Since Middle America has not heard of the music they did listen to (KMFDM and Rammstein, among others), the media picked something they thought was similar.

Responsible journalists have reported with less publicity that Harris and Klebold were not Marilyn Manson fans -- that they even disliked my music. Even if they were fans, that gives them no excuse, nor does it mean that music is to blame. Did we look for James Huberty's inspiration when he gunned down people at McDonald's? What did Timothy McVeigh like to watch? What about David Koresh, Jim Jones? Do you think entertainment inspired Kip Kinkel, or should we blame the fact that his father bought him the guns he used in the Springfield, Oregon, murders? What inspires Bill Clinton to blow people up in Kosovo? Was it something that Monica Lewinsky said to him? Isn't killing just killing, regardless if it's in Vietnam or Jonesboro, Arkansas? Why do we justify one, just because it seems to be for the right reasons? Should there ever be a right reason? If a kid is old enough to drive a car or buy a gun, isn't he old enough to be held personally responsible for what he does with his car or gun? Or if he's a teenager, should someone else be blamed because he isn't as enlightened as an eighteen-year-old?

America loves to find an icon to hang its guilt on. But, admittedly, I have assumed the role of Antichrist; I am the Nineties voice of individuality, and people tend to associate anyone who looks and behaves differently with illegal or immoral activity. Deep down, most adults hate people who go against the grain. It's comical that people are naive enough to have forgotten Elvis, Jim Morrison and Ozzy so quickly. All of them were subjected to the same age-old arguments, scrutiny and prejudice. I wrote a song called "Lunchbox," and some journalists have interpreted it as a song about guns. Ironically, the song is about being picked on and fighting back with my Kiss lunch box, which I used as a weapon on the playground. In 1979, metal lunch boxes were banned because they were considered dangerous weapons in the hands of delinquents. I also wrote a song called "Get Your Gunn." The title is spelled with two n's because the song was a reaction to the murder of Dr. David Gunn, who was killed in Florida by pro-life activists while I was living there. That was the ultimate hypocrisy I witnessed growing up: that these people killed someone in the name of being "pro-life."
The somewhat positive messages of these songs are usually the ones that sensationalists misinterpret as promoting the very things I am decrying. Right now, everyone is thinking of how they can prevent things like Littleton. How do you prevent AIDS, world war, depression, car crashes? We live in a free country, but with that freedom there is a burden of personal responsibility. Rather than teaching a child what is moral and immoral, right and wrong, we first and foremost can establish what the laws that govern us are. You can always escape hell by not believing in it, but you cannot escape death and you cannot escape prison.

It is no wonder that kids are growing up more cynical; they have a lot of information in front of them. They can see that they are living in a world that's made of bullshit. In the past, there was always the idea that you could turn and run and start something better. But now America has become one big mall, and because of the Internet and all of the technology we have, there's nowhere to run. People are the same everywhere. Sometimes music, movies and books are the only things that let us feel like someone else feels like we do. I've always tried to let people know it's OK, or better, if you don't fit into the program. Use your imagination -- if some geek from Ohio can become something, why can't anyone else with the willpower and creativity?
I chose not to jump into the media frenzy and defend myself, though I was begged to be on every single TV show in existence. I didn't want to contribute to these fame-seeking journalists and opportunists looking to fill their churches or to get elected because of their self-righteous finger-pointing. They want to blame entertainment? Isn't religion the first real entertainment? People dress up in costumes, sing songs and dedicate themselves in eternal fandom. Everyone will agree that nothing was more entertaining than Clinton shooting off his prick and then his bombs in true political form. And the news -- that's obvious. So is entertainment to blame? I'd like media commentators to ask themselves, because their coverage of the event was some of the most gruesome entertainment any of us have seen.

I think that the National Rifle Association is far too powerful to take on, so most people choose Doom, The Basketball Diaries or yours truly. This kind of controversy does not help me sell records or tickets, and I wouldn't want it to. I'm a controversial artist, one who dares to have an opinion and bothers to create music and videos that challenge people's ideas in a world that is watered-down and hollow. In my work I examine the America we live in, and I've always tried to show people that the devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us. So don't expect the end of the world to come one day out of the blue -- it's been happening every day for a long time.

MARILYN MANSON (May 28, 1999)


Azelma

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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:55 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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It's an unnecessarily long rant with some valid points and some nonsense.
(it took me about 45 seconds to read, fwiw)

He identifies a contradiction - that we perceive society today as violent even though the world of the past was much more brutal - but I don't completely agree with his blaming the availability of information. Most people are still pretty ignorant.

I think the real answer goes back to what I identified, the lack of unifying social values and institutions to sort out what is and is not acceptable. Most people are not Socrates or Voltaires capable of making up their own values from scratch; they just aren't that smart or strong. They rely on society to do that for them, and American society fails at doing so.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:35 pm  
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aa9_1342796057


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:06 am  
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I can think of no better place for this.






Also, I was unaware of this till you brought it up Azelma. Thanks for contributing to his infamy!


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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:36 am  
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Malodorous Moron
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Music, movies, television and video games do not cause violent behavior. They don't contribute to its gestation, nor do they add up at all to the same importance as something so key as upbringing.

That being said, they certainly do spur said behavior along in many cases. An example:

Eric is five years old. Every night, his father comes home, beats him and rapes Eric's mother. Little Eric is traumatized, horribly, for years on end by this ceaseless abuse --- he begins at age eight to mutilate the neighborhood pets he comes across, sometimes even killing the animals in twisted acts of projection, i.e. the placement of feelings toward another entity onto a more present (and in many cases, more vulnerable) target.

Both the parental and animal abuse continue into puberty for Eric. Eventually, though, his father is locked up for an unrelated felony as Eric and his mother are left, finally, to live on their own without the ever-looming fear of an imminent beating. The mutilations, however, continue on. Eric is thirteen years old.

It's a year later. 1999. As Eric enters high school, he's exposed to genres of music he'd have never thought existed --- nu metal, hardcore punk, grindcore, death metal, industrial, etc. He begins to watch gory underground films recommended to him by classmates and his anonymous peers on the budding World Wide Web. He starts researching different firearms, their potential uses and how he could obtain them.

"For research purposes," he rationalizes to himself.

But he wants to redeem himself. He wants to show that he's not the same helpless, vulnerable and easily controlled child that he was nearly a decade ago. And now that he's seen what can be done with a gun, research and some creativity --- all of this, mind you, has been provided to him by the Internet --- he's going to do just that. After all, it's easy in the movies. It's easy in books, and it's most definitely easy in video games. So why not put his newfound knowledge to the test and effectively "step up" from the mere child's play that was his killing of cats?

Thus, Columbine. Change the date and you get Virginia Tech. Change the date once more and you'll have a likely basis for the Batman shooting.

Remember, though: I'm not saying that movies, books, music, television and video games cause such horrible, violent and (literally) antisocial behavior. But to argue that they're in the clear because of that is ridiculous --- familial abuse has been prevalent since the dawn of man, and yet only in the last half century have people genuinely (and violently) lashed out against it. With the rise of individualist media --- which we're obviously unable to put a stop to, now or ever --- the only rational counter to the inevitable violence is to, as React said, attack the problem rather than its catalysts so as to render those catalysts void.


Bryzette (Retired)
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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:51 am  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Reading about this guy:

Apparently he was a WoW player. And a genius. A brain surgeon, literally. And yet it seems after he finished his education he was unable to find anything to do professionally and wound up working at McDonalds.

He also booby-trapped his entire apartment so thoroughly (using mortar rounds as triggered charges) that the cops can't enter it. So presumably he also played Fallout.

There are those who would say that it is somehow a reflection on WoW or WoW players that the pastime is often associated with shooters.

To that I would say: Which is the bigger problem, that geniuses enjoy playing online roleplaying games, or that geniuses are compelled to work at McDonalds because the world has nothing better to offer? Which is the more troubled - the online world, or the real world?

It's not hard for anyone to understand - certainly not any young white male of above-average intelligence - how living this man's life would make him feel frustrated, undervalued, the victim of a borked social value system and constantly blamed for the world's problems.

As such, I freely admit that I have infinitely more sympathy for the killer than for his victims. The sad truth is that in America today, if one sprays a crowd with an automatic weapon, most of those hit would be stupid, bad, compassionless and worthless people, people who disdain those better than them, who buy into every lame social platitude out of mental laziness and moral turpitude, and who simply don't have any motive beyond their personal hedonism.

I think that most people would agree that failing to value the lives of others is a valid basis to forfeit one's own life. So where does that put the lives of most Americans, who don't seem to care about anyone but themselves, certainly not imaginative young white males?

No doubt the killer was very cognizant of this. And the very fact that his motives seem to be such a total mystery to everyone and that no one seems capable of approaching the troubling questions this raises about our society objectively - instead turning the whole thing into more cliched "vigils" and correlation-based blaming and discrimination against white male nerds - demonstrates just how right he was.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:06 pm  
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Fat Bottomed Faggot
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Quote:
I freely admit that I have infinitely more sympathy for the killer than for his victims.


What the actual fuck.


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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 Post subject: Re: The Media's Role in Perpetuating Mass Shootings
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:10 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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That's stupid.


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