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Hey Azelma feel free to send me a copy of Les Miserables I already own a copy of Atlas Shrugged (and the Fountain Head fwiw) but I haven't gotten around to reading it.

@Aestu, I know safeties fail and no place is truly "safe" from a child's hands, but I think there's a difference from leaving it somewhere they could easily acquire it, like say a dresser drawer or something like that vs a place that would be quite harder for them (though not impossible, which is why I lock my door every time I leave.)

I'd have thought someone with your keen and penetrating intellect and above-average cognitive abilities would have worked out that it wasn't being used in the clinical sense, and deciphered the meaning. It's being used to express a sentiment that is the antithesis of xenophobia.



Yes, of course, everyone who hates the Tea Party if obviously completely rational and never the least bit unhinged or deranged, and no one has ever accused the Tea Party of being a wink-and-a-nod away from turning into a terrorist organization (you know, except for this time when ABC tried to imply it, or all the times after the Giffords shooting when it was implied--or plainly stated--or...well, you get the idea).



The article was a critique of media practices, in a column that routinely includes such critiques. For all your bluster about "critical thinking," you fail to make the connection between the "outrage" and the topic of the article, which is that not only was it an outrage for ABC to identify an individual as the shooter without vetting their discovery (the outrage), but they somehow decided that the most important thing they could identify about him was that he was a member of the Tea Party (the topic of the article: how some journalists attempt to conflate certain groups with negative activities while hiding the involvement of members of certain other groups). This was no "common error," and while it may not have been deliberate (I tend to think gaffes like this are born of the unconscious bigotries of the journalists involved) it was, at best, a serious lapse in whatever standards/practices ABC generally employs.

I don't know how anyone would have thought that any kind of an internet search for "Jim/James Holmes Aurora Colorado" was going to bring up anything knowing that the internet was going to be saturated with news stories regarding that name and location. Was that the only Jim Holmes that came up that wasn't part of some news story? I don't know...and I don't care. "We found a guy with that name on the internet" isn't news...much like the video of the actual shooter giving a speech at a science camp wasn't news. There was no purpose served in doing what ABC's journalists did other than the one suggested.

But hey, I didn't find this on the BBC website, nor am I a self-certified expert on everything except sexual lubricants, so I can totally see your point.

Your Pal,
Jubber

EDIT: I found an article about the media reaction that I like better: http://www.humanevents.com/2012/07/23/d ... ny-jokers/

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

The word means what it means.



Ok. Why?



This just in: WSJ is part of the mainstream media.

Where do you get your ideas?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

liberal media hates conservative views/people.

This isn't obvious to you?

If that's "obvious" to you then you are ignorant and brainwashed.

That's not my opinion, it's objective fact.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

So fox news is biased and deceitful against liberals, but msnbc abc etc aren't biased and deceitful against conservatives.

You're right, I'm the one who's ignorant and brainwashed.

This just in: The world is more than 30 years old, and it's bigger than the three big red buttons on your idiot box. If you weren't ignorant or brainwashed this would have already occurred to you.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I am late to reading all this : [ It's sad innocent people died. The guy is probably a nutjob. No he probably couldn't have knifed 50 people, but I bet he could have run over 50 people on the sidewalk outside in his car(and a car would have cheaper than all the stuff he had).

As far as the "gun" ban debate goes... Firearms are a tool(I'm not talking about grenades and rocket launchers and full auto WEAPONS, I'm talking about rifles and pistols and I guess Bows though those are different ) with proper training/practice they are no more dangerous then a sawzall a car or a kitchen knife. If you buy a firearm I think you have a responsibly to use it wisely and in a safe manner, IE learn about how to use it safely and when to use it(MOST important part).

I have never heard of a law that requires you to unload your firearms in your home, maybe it is a state thing where some of you live? Many states have different rules. I did look into carry laws a while back and most states(like 30) allow you to Openly carry a firearm(in most areas) w/o a license or permit, another 10 or so require you get a permit and 9-10 do not allow it at all. It's a little more complicated though as a lot of states have boundary laws(can't move firearms over the state line) and having a firearm in your car(and accessible in most cases) in most states makes it "concealed".A lot of places have "concealed" weapons permits or licences as well though. In NH I know it is a permit which means all you have to do is show that you have a legal right to own a firearm and they have to give you the permit.

I myself don't carry a firearm at this time for a couple of reasons. The first one is that I don't own a handgunso it would be physically impossible :](though I plan to eventually when I have more money and time to use it), and the other is that a smart person(and I like to think I am one>.>) knows that it is a VERY big decision to pull said firearm(and the trigger especially). As soon as you take it out your life changes for ever. It's very easy to say if you were in your own home and people started smashing windows that you would whip out your shotgun and start making noise(and NH has a form of Castle Doctrine so I can defend my home if needed) or even in an alley if its you against one guy(though I never carry anything around with me worth killing/dying over) but I think its entirely different in a large group of people, if you fuck up and shoot the wrong dude your life is over(maybe his to) and it is just not a choice I want to have to make at this point in my life. I do imagine that if I had a wife/kids I would rethink the whole thing but as long as I have only myself to worry about it's an easy decision for me personally.




Hiding firearms is fine when kids are little, but at some point you need to teach kids about them just like you would with any other potentially dangerous tool. Children are by nature curious and at some point if they know something is hidden and they aren't supposed to look at it they will try to get there hands on it what ever it might be. But if you go into great detail and teach them proper/safe use and to have respect for the capabilitys of said firearm the mystery will be gone and the fear and consequences(of miss use) will remain. I have no idea how old your kid(s) are, I know that I for one learned about firearms pretty young(my childhood is pretty fuzzy other than major events /shrug) mostly I think due to being the youngest of 3 siblings, I know my father taught me how to use/ let me use his .22(under his supervision) prior to me going to cub scout camp when I was like 8-9(they had BB guns at the camp and he wanted to make sure I was prepared). He bought me a pellet rifle when I was I want to say 11-12 as my brothers were on a pellet rifle team(nice target rifles provided) and I could practice with them if I had my own(it was a spring loaded jobby and we put a peep sight on the back and drilled out the front post to also act as a peep, was pretty slick since we made the front peep the perfect size for the 33ft distance we shot at with them). He then allowed me to purchase my own .22 on my 16th B-day.

PS: Kinda sucks this dude used an AR-15 as it is my preferred target rifle(we use them in competition and I'm quite proud of my brothers having represented NH at the National Matches in Ohio).

Çhubathingy - Shaman - Royal Militia
Hoenhiem - Paladin - Royal Militia
Contact: Bnet= nurindun#1138 / twitter / twitch

Question: Why aren't we as serious about teaching kids to cook and mend? Or learning first aid and CPR? Or learning a second or third language?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Good question actually. I am infinitely better off for having done all those (except maybe mend?) before learning to shoot a gun. Maybe I'm comfortable with myself, or at least enough to not have to over-compensate by trying to be a badass.

EDIT: ok I have a question too - how come the flawed thinking of "everyone should be armed so that nobody will want to threaten anyone else" isn't applied to the world on a grander scale? We could easily say "If every country has nuclear weapons, nobody will threaten somone else." does that sound like a good idea?

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

It does work - but only because there are fewer countries than people and no one man can make the call.

And luck. A lot of luck. Last time we tried armed peace, the result was World War I.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

But back to my question. Why are all these people obsessed with gun training because they think it's a life skill not interested in teaching kids to cook and mend, perform first aid and CPR, speak a second or third language, or hell even learn times tables?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we only teach our children how to safely use, care for, or respect firearms. Like Fanta's parents, mine taught me a large gamut of skills. Because my parents both worked two jobs when I was younger I learned how to cook, clean and care for myself... and my old man taught me other skills which are equally invaluable, like furniture/electronic repair, how to fight, how to catch/kill and skin an animal, how to manage a checkbook, etc. Now, I don't use those skills all the time but I'm confident that if I needed to use them, I'd be better off having some exposure than none at all. I think of my father teaching me how to use a firearm the same way. It's just another invaluable skill for my 'skill toolbox', and I'm better for it.

Whatever you say. Most of those skills you list are either marginal/intangible or basically useless Robinson Crusoe-style skills that have no application in the civilized world. I'm quite certain you're not multilingual (you certainly aren't multicultural) and I doubt you learned CPR as a kid which is far, far more likely to save a life than knowing how to make yourself a Tarzan loincloth or beat some other kid up (let's not pretend that "learn to fight" actually means martial arts or self-defense in the sense of "here's how you don't wind up dead", which is less about how to fight and more about how to not fight).

And for the millions of gun nuts in this country who talk about gun education the point stands. They are interested in training their kids in how to use weapons but not in how to save lives or to learn core skills that are far more likely to have a pervasive influence on their lives.

And there is only one possible explanation why that is so.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

I learned how to cook as kid.
I learned how to "mend"(I assume you mean sewing) as a kid.
I learned first aid and took CPR lesson as a kid.

I only know engerish : [


All of those things I learned from my parents and through the scouting program, my brothers and I were involved with the Boy Scouts until I was about 16. Boy Scouts is about like everything else, you get out of it what you(and your parents) put into it. My parents didn't look at it as Baby Sitters of America, they put in a lot of time teaching myself and the other kids life long skills(though I will admit most of BSA is retarded).

And I think what I said was "if you buy a" so yea if you buy food I hope you learn how to cook it...

Çhubathingy - Shaman - Royal Militia
Hoenhiem - Paladin - Royal Militia
Contact: Bnet= nurindun#1138 / twitter / twitch

Yes, I mean sewing. The point still stands though. Why do so many people prioritize training this skill over other skills that are very obviously more useful? Why isn't there as much controversy over the absence of such training programs?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.