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I like how people give a fuck who worships who.

You're trying to get through to people who think Paul is an inveterate racist.

Am I the only one that thinks every politician is full of shit and should be beaten?

I'm too passive to beat anybody. Don't mistake me for pacifist though.

According to the outcome of his trial... yes, he's innocent.


You're saying the man has been charged with pedophila by three separate entities? Care to source that, because in all the articles I read, they state, "He has said the sexual accusations were "outrageous and completely false." While there is an active investigation, Soles has never been charged with any crimes related to the sexual accusations, and some accusers have at times given contradictory accounts and attempted to extort money from him." I've seen he's been charged with assault and other things, but nothing in regards to sexual assault, molestation, pedophelia, etc.


No, it's a parallel argument. You said, "Presidential candidates releasing their tax returns is nothing new, it's to be expected". Romney and McCain released two years of their tax returns in their respective races. Romney did what was expected of him yet, to the Democrats, it's not enough when it was perfectly enough for McCain. Why is it not enough now? I'll tell you why. Democrats thought they'd find an error they could hang Romney on so they wanted tax returns. Romney delivered two years. The Democrats didn't find any errors in those returns, so they want more. More returns means more chances to find a problem. "Tax Evasion" is the charge you made, but you have no way of backing that up. You're talking out your ass and you know it.

If unfounded allegations are enough to force Romney into release more tax returns than have already been released, then unfounded allegations are enough to force Obama into releasing his college transcripts.


I'm amused that you have so much faith in the government and it's ability to regulate and control all aspects of our lives, straight down to who can and can't have children, who can and can't buy old-model guns, and who should have control of a child in the event of a divorce... but you have little faith in the government when we're talking about the IRS and it's ability to audit tax returns.


Factually untrue? You're the one saying R.C. Soles is a sexual predator based on the accusations of some kids, and that Mitt Romney is a tax-evader based on something Harry Reid said (and that's something Harry Reid doesn't even know is true). But the moment Mitt Romney said he has been audited, it's all lies. What?


Eric Holder, in 1995, said the government needs to brainwash people into thinking about gun control differently. Years later, Obama, rated as the most liberal US Senator according to the National Journal's 2007 ranking, starts running for Presidential office. I think the ranking is an important detail since it's generally accepted that liberals and progressives want strict gun control. In fact, in 2011, Obama met with Sarah Brady to talk about gun control, and Sarah Brady recalled, "I just want you to know that we are working on it. We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar." Why would he say this? Well, In April 2009, Obama said, "More than 90% of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States... we need to stop the south-bound flow of guns and cash... and we're committed to working with Mexico."

90% of weapons recovered in Mexico... that's a large number. With it he should be able to start talking about gun control in an open dialog but later that year, his administration starts running a program was designed to increase the number of weapons recovered in Mexico, increase the number of US weapons used in the commission of a crime and to increase the inflow of weapons and cash to Mexico. It just makes no sense. You allegedly have a large percentage of recovered weapons to cite, why would you need to increase them? Perhaps this, along with executive orders, is the "under the radar" approach Obama was referring to? Well, it turns out that 90% figure was wrong.

From Wikipedia (so you can check all the sources yourself):
However, following a review by the U.S. Office of the Inspector General (OIG) on September 2010, the ATF admitted that “the 90% figure cited to Congress could be misleading because it applied only to the small portion of Mexican crime guns that are traced.”[18] During this 2010 review by the OIG, the ATF could not provide updated information on the percentage of traced Mexican crime guns that were sourced to (that is, found to be manufactured in or imported through) the United States,[18]. The November 2010 OIG analysis of ATF data suggest a low percentage of successful weapons traces, ranging from 27% to 44%.[22] In February 2011, Stratfor Global Intelligence calculated the number to be situated between 12% and 48%, and reported almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.[23]

Did Obama know that the 90% figure was wrong prior to his use? Who knows. We know the OIG and Stratfor used drastically different numbers from what the President used. What could Obama have done differently? He could've run his program similarly to President Bush's program...

Wide Receiver was President Bush's gunrunning program from 2006-2007 and was meant to track the people transporting weapons from the United States into Mexico. ATF set up surveillance shops in some gun stores and tracked purchases. The Mexican Government was to work together with ATF to recapture the runners once they made it into Mexico... but, that never happened. When the Bush Administration realized that guns were disappearing, they shut the program down. Many of the guns were recovered... it was only a few dozen that went missing. Eric Holder's DOJ followed up on the program in 2010 and charged several people with crimes.

Fast and Furious was supposed to take out the king-pins and not the individual runners. Fast and Furious had little coordination with the local gun shops and, based on the response from Mexican officials (and like I mentioned before), had little coordination (if any) with the Mexican government, although he said in an earlier video that he'd work with them. This operation let nearly four times the weapons cross into Mexico track the sale of the supposed to be monitored on the Mexican side by some in the Mexican government. Of the 2000+ guns that went to Mexico, about 20% have been accounted for... the rest are lost.

Obama's Administration went after Bush's operation -- which was much smaller and better managed, but Obama used Executive Privilege to protect his own botched operation. If his administration did no wrong then why would Obama use a tactic (EP) he criticized Bush on? Maybe they knew they were lying when they used the 90% figure? Maybe they had some documents which would've exposed the motives? Maybe they hoped the FnF operation would've gone on longer and done more damage so the President and DOJ could push for greater gun restrictions?


Conspiring with terrorists to win an election or effectively handing Mexican drug cartels thousands of weapons in hopes the American public would be "brainwashed" into thinking differently about guns and handing away more of their rights... both are pretty evil. I'm guessing you don't see FnF as much of an issue because, 1) You don't like the south and this is a southern problem and 2) Mexicans are mostly suffering from the gun sales, and you're racist towards them.

PS: This entire, "Hey, let's look at something and twist it around to vilify people" is really fun! Thanks for the new game, Aestu!

Arguing that not releasing tax returns is justified because something might be embarrassing is proof that you're biased beyond reason. The entire POINT of the system is to find bad stuff. The very fact you think that bad stuff in there wouldn't be an obstacle to being president proves you don't give a shit about what would be good for this country or who is or isn't a crook, just about your own BS.

Soles is guilty as sin. Period. It's not "a bunch of children" making accusations, it's the bar, sheriffs, and FBI, all independently, with a lot of documentation. Five pages ago you were going on about how anti-gun people don't have enough sympathy for victims. Now we have REAL victims, not hypothetical victims, and all of a sudden you couldn't care less. Again, BS.

With your bit about Obama and guns, you're trying to emulate the style of academic writing, but you don't turn your Googled citations into a cogent argument. None of what you say proves Obama caused the problem, only that he identified it and appears to have tried to fix it.

The pardon to Holden seems to have been intended to insulate him from being prosecuted for the same reason, having initially permitted the continuation of the program that had begun during Bush, but slammed the brakes and demanded an investigation when it got out of control, then blamed for political reasons. That is to say, by the same people who insisted Soles was anti-gun when the truth was the opposite. If it's not so then what was Holden's actual motivation?

You're trying to take a statement Obama made about the need to fix the situation, other bits about how the FBI (comprised mostly of officials who got their tenure before Obama and probably before Bush as well) fucked up and trying to argue that because Obama said there is a problem, and argue that because there is a problem, therefore, Obama caused the problem. You say Bush's was better managed - why? Well then again you're so biased you think it doesn't matter if a GOP candidate broke the law, so there goes that question.

And because in your warped world, any bad the GOP does, must be matched by some equally bad thing by the Dems, who are of course even worse, you turn the whole thing into a crazy plot by Obama to give the Mexicans guns.

So, yeah, Round 2 over.



He is.

Willful ignorance is the substance and bedrock of your entire political viewpoint. Everything you believe has been shot to pieces time and again, yet you continue to believe things and can never quite seem to articulate why.

You have no place saying it's futile "getting through" to anyone. You talk like you have all the answers yet you are provably a 100% ignorant person. The definition of 100% ignorance being, you have literally no knowledge about anything whatsoever (you have never read a book or foreign newspaper, know little about your own government and nothing at all about foreign countries, and you even support bills that mean the opposite of what you believe they mean, e.g., that power plant bill a few months ago) yet have opinions all the same.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Answer these:
Do you acknowledge that Romney released two years of tax returns?
Do you acknowledge that the Democrats didn't find any fault with the tax returns?
Why were two years of tax returns acceptable for McCain but not Romney?
What credible evidence is there to suggest Romney was doing bad stuff in his unreleased tax returns?


I asked for your sources once before. If the police and/or FBI had a 'lot of documentation' to prove that he was involved with some molestation or sexual assault, then why were there no formal charges filed? If there were, link to them, and also explain why he was never convicted with this 'lot of documentation'. Either you, or the accusers, are making this shit up.


Obama has a strange way of fixing problems.
"We have a debt crisis... so, uh... spend more money we don't have!"
"We have a crisis with guns slipping south of the border... so, uh... send more guns south of the border!"


First, it's HOLDER. I know, it's petty... but I'm not going to let shit like this slide when you're criticizing Weena for not knowing anything about our government, while you don't know the names of the officials that are at the center of a scandal you're trying to argue doesn't exist.

Also, the breaks weren't slammed when things got out of control. They were never in control to begin with. The reason the brakes were applied is because these guns have been showing up as mass killing in Mexico and were even used against American border patrol agents, and then people started learning about this program that Eric Holder was central to. The Department of Justice said, "...the allegation described in your January 27 letter–that ATF “sanctioned” or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to a straw purchaser who then transported them into Mexico–is false." If I remember right, this is similar to what Holder said in a hearing, but it contradicts statements posted on the DOJ website which talks about ATF expanding Project Gunrunner with money provided by the stimulus package. "My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams... this is a problem that must be met as part of a comprehensive attack against the cartels – an attack in depth, on both sides of the border, that focuses on the leadership and assets of the cartel." With all this, the Oversight Committee subpoenaed documents from the DOJ and those requests were blocked by the side-line sitting Obama. Because Holder wasn't really answering the committees questions, as well as his refusal to release documents willingly, the Oversight Committee and the Congress both voted to hold Holder in contempt. Unfortunately, we won't know much more about this because the "most transparent administration" in history is hiding shit from Congress. I wonder why...


Sorta. I'm saying that the Obama administration is responsible for the reviving of the program. Obama signed the bill which gave the program funding, and Eric Holder's DOJ are the ones who put it in place. I'm also pointing out that Obama lied when he said he would try to stop the flow of guns and money to Mexico and that he'd work in conjunction with the Mexican government -- neither of those happened. He promoted a program which let guns go and he didn't let the Mexicans know about it. Why?

1) Wide Receiver had a greater number of recoveries and fewer guns walked away.
2) Wide Receiver used practices that you see in a lot of law enforcement -- let the criminal take the bait then interdict when possible -- like, when the gun runner makes it into Mexico.
3) Wide Receiver used tracking technology, like GPS, to help keep track of the weapons.
4) Wide Receiver was shut down once guns started going missing -- not once government officials started dying and it became a media shitstorm.


Um, no you?


Yea, because that's what it was. The whole operation was meant to let guns walk into Mexico. Crazy, I know. If you're not going to educate yourself on this topic, and choose willful ignorance, then there's no helping you.


You're 0/2 right now. Better luck next time.

I share this sentiment, entry level politicians excluded. National and state level politicians, sure. Good people who desire to make the world better for unselfish reasons are few and far between once they reach a certain threshold.

If you're relevant, you're bought. It's that simple. You gotta scratch someone's back somewhere along the way, because they've already scratched yours.

Brawlsack

Taking an extended hiatus from gaming

If a potential (and your hopeful) leader of the free world brags about how he prays through decisions and that those prayers go to a 6 foot 3 inch man named Elohiem on the far-away planet named Kolob, I don't see how you can't give a fuck. If you didn't know what Mormonism was and you had someone sit down and explain it to you, you'd think they were crazy.

It really shows a lot about someone when they follow a faith that was created by (iirc) a convicted fraud.

EDIT:

I was skimming through your post and stopped right here. You're aware that there's an actual socialist in the Senate, don't you?

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Question three is begging the question. The answer to the others is that clearly the bad stuff is in the unreleased returns; otherwise, why not release them?



The town sheriff was quoted as saying Soles had a history of situations. The frivolous police calls and associated reports were photographed in the linked Youtube. Formal charges (assault with a deadly weapon) WERE filed, he's in the disbarment process, and as the investigation is pending it's likely more will follow.

Let me ask you, why do you think he's being disbarred?
And why so quick to assume there's nothing there?



Again, you're talking in FOX NEWS terms. Propaganda phrases totally detached from actual facts.
Spend money on what, exactly?



Your Googled material doesn't support your claims.

The letter you linked wasn't signed by Holder nor does it mention him.

The speech by Holder makes no reference to FnF, he just says that they're assigning more agents to Gunrunner, which is an umbrella program that includes FnF. That's like saying because Bush sent troops to Iraq, he's responsible for Abu Ghirab.


Can you substantiate this?



How would this benefit Obama?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

K, tell me why.



Maybe he donated his used underwear and wrote it off.

First off, you're an uneducated person, so I'm automatically right.

By that I mean you believe what you do in a total vacuum, and since you form your views without facts, it shouldn't come as a surprise that facts don't dissuade you from believing what you do.

I mean if you want to have fact-driven opinions then why don't you try to educate yourself?

Anyway:
-A series of emails in which his aides thanked white supremacist movements for their support, saying "Ron would like to say thanks, but he can't because it would be political suicide". (read transcript, pg. 8-15)



-Racist articles written by Ron Paul, or in his name, in the 1990s (the distinction is irrelevant because he took responsibility for them)
-Ron Paul gives speech in front of Confederate flag about how South was right during Civil War
-White supremacists give Ron Paul money and appear with him in public:



-Ron Paul actively supported white supremacist violence:



But really the slam-dunk is, why would anyone even make these claims about Ron Paul unless they were true? Ron Paul isn't a political threat to anyone, he's not even Perot.

Why would many different people, without any common agenda, find a lot of different pieces of evidence, in different places and times, unless it's the truth?

Now of course, "prefer to believe, likely and possible, slimmest of doubts, mountains of evidence to the contrary," "uneducated person", etc. No one needs a crystal ball to know that even if the man is found with a smoking gun (lol Reagan/Solus) brainwashed, stupid, selfish and otherwise un-American right-wingers will go on believing what they do.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Aren't you an atheist? Shouldn't all religions be fraud?

Believe me, I don't like mormons. I really don't like Romney, and I really don't like Obama. IF I even bother to vote this time, it'll ONLY be because of that shit Obama said to the russian official about that "after my reelection I'll have more flexibility" shit.

But mainly because I hate the russians more than Obama or Romney.

He was being honest. That's how it works. I don't see why it's a problem.

What is extraordinary about that dialogue seems to have been completely lost on everyone in America which is Mendenev basically admitting he's Putin's errand boy.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.