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I Has a Bucket: Preventing bucket theft on Bleeding Hollow | FUBU: A better BH Forum
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:01 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Grimmgor wrote:
algalon was never really hard


By that logic, no one should ever have been proud of completing the encounter or of getting any of the associated achievements, because it was never hard in the first place, and RM took so long to defeat it purely because of RNG.

Henq wrote:
Not to derail the derailing, but I really don't see how people can use I AM A BAD PLAYER anymore. I think the debate ended forever ago.

The fact is that any pug run advertising gear score and making their pug selections based on that alone, will always do worse than a pug run that inspects and chats with everyone before they are invited to the raid.

I will always been a fan of armory. And I have recently taken to just talking to the people who pst for invites. Asking two or three questions can give you quite a bit of information about the player behind the character, how well they know their toon, how well they know the fights, etc.

Though granted, my method is much more time consuming. So I am sure there is a tradeoff somewhere, but none involving I AM A BAD PLAYER


I honestly don't inspect for most pugs anymore, because it's so hard to tell good players from bads. So few players have real raid experience outside ICC (at least on the characters they routinely play), and everyone has the same welfare epics, and most gemming/enchanting is rote enough that even players who have no idea how to actually play their characters appear to gem correctly.

For Onyxia, Malygos, or Ulduar - basically, anything short of ToGC-25, or the second half of ICC25, the latter I don't pug anymore - I just invite random people then boot them after the fact if they underperform or if I summon them then see their gearing is gratuitously retarded.

It's enormously frustrating how LFD has destroyed the culture of this game.

The other day, I happened to be logged on my priest, still in mostly T8, and saw a group on Gunship-10 normal looking for a healer. I decided, why not, snag some gear for my alt...

I'm asked my gearscore. "No fucking idea. It's a bad mod for bad players by a bad player, and if you need to gear check for lootship that's pathetic." He asks where I am in IF; then thinks better of it and summons me. I join vent. This fat kid says, "This guy is lucky I'm letting him be here with his gearscore, I should just boot him."

So then we do Gunship 10 normal. EIGHT MINUTES start to finish. Two dps get axed to death. Then we do Saurfang and wipe twice because the hunters (there were three in the group, in addition to a a warlock, a mage and a resto sham) kept getting meleed by adds, and the DK tank, the GM of <Hells Heroes>, kept taunting at the wrong times or not at all.

Then I open mic and tell them matter of factly how to do it, "you need to taunt at the right times, there's no reason hunters should ever get meleed."

"We don't need you to tell us how to do this, we know how to do it, your gearscore sucks, this is a guild run and you're a pug."

Very characteristically, I reacted with continual escalation until I was vent banned and ignored by the entire guild (O NOOOO) then we gave up.

But yeah, "Saurfang is a freebie. That's the highly technical term. Believe me, it works." -Zarhym. Apparently, just not a freebie enough for some people, or even LOOTSHIP.

Seriously, full 264, five ranged, and can't do Gunship 10 or Saurfang 10. And these people think they're awesome because of their gearscore. Incomprehensible.

It's funny, though, I can tell if someone is using Gearscore just by how they itemize. They'll always use the Triumph trinket or Corpse Tongue Coin, and will always have very even item levels across all their gear, typically with totally dartboard itemization. I remember one mage wanted to come to something with like 17% hit.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:55 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Just reading that story Aestu makes me want to rage.

I literally don't understand why people fail at things in this game. Okay, failing at a hardmode I can understand. But something like saurfang...I just don't get it.

The problem is, in this game, you don't have to be good anymore to get gear or see end game bosses. To be honest, you mostly just need to have a pulse.

Think about heroics and the LFD system. Someone hits 80, you queue up, and most of the time you'll have a group that's overgeared enough to just zerg everything and carry you.

No cc. No thinking. Most people just ignore boss mechanics now (such as "Pound" in AN, I remember when it first came out...it was kinda stressful if the tank ate it...now it's just like...meh)

Then you get into 25 mans, and it's another zerg fest. Zerg VoA 25, get some highest tier gear...hooray.

Then you have GDKPs which let people just buy gear (not that i'm against GDKPs, but it's just another way for a bad to purchase is way into being geared).

Now, even the simplest boss fights are made complicated by incompetence. People still fail on Onyxia...such a simple ass fight...but people just stand right in her path and die in the fire...and i'm just like...WTF you have 6 seconds to get to a wall...how do you not know this.

Bah, I don't get it.

/rant


Azelma

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:57 pm  
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Feckless Fool
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Quote:
By that logic, no one should ever have been proud of completing the encounter or of getting any of the associated achievements, because it was never hard in the first place, and RM took so long to defeat it purely because of RNG.


i don't think anyone really does act "proud" of it. i only wear the title because i was awol for death's demise, and it's an okay sounding title.

not trying to start an argument like last time, but you can't seriously say with a straight face that algalon was a hard fight, other then the fact your tank could die instantly. the only errors you could make were killing stars as meteors (i don't remember what they were called) hit, or not moving into the void zone. that was literally the extent of the fight.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:12 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:18 pm
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I use the corpse tongue coin and the triumph trinket on my warrior because i'm too lazy to farm for the black heart and i'm saving up frost badges for the BP instead of that trinket.


but unlike most queerscore nubs i understand the trinkets are bad.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:34 pm  
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Pinheaded Pissant
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Grimmgor wrote:
i don't think anyone really does act "proud" of it. i only wear the title because i was awol for death's demise, and it's an okay sounding title.


best title is still bloodsail admiral.

Y'ARRRRRRR.


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Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:51 pm  
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Stupid Schlemiel
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 4:53 pm
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dek wrote:
best title is still bloodsail admiral.

Y'ARRRRRRR.


Of Gnomeregan


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:00 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:41 pm
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Jushiro wrote:
dek wrote:
best title is still bloodsail admiral.

Y'ARRRRRRR.


Of Gnomeregan


worst title
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:17 pm  
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Fat Bottomed Faggot
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:53 pm
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Brewmaster


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:31 pm  
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Feckless Fool
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:15 pm
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Herald of the Titans.


Cindered
Another Cindered

A penny put in a jar is a penny not put in my nose.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:42 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:41 pm
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Crusader
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:01 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Bane of the Fallen King.

Seriously, I plan to show it over Light of Dawn. If I do play Cata (which I doubt), I'll probably show Herald of the Titans, because it will be a FoS in Cata and therefore rarer. BoFK is very likely to still be obtainable post-4.0. I am tempted to show Hand of A'dal but it doesn't sound epic enough and too many people got it post-3.0; Champion of the Naaru has been sadly thoroughly soiled by its resemblance to the WotLK title.

And Herald of the Titans just sounds awesome.

*pulls up at Crusader Aura speed riding Anzu the Raven Lord*
HI
IM A BUSTY BLUE SPACEGOAT WITH 50K HP AND AN ANGEL FOLLOWING ME AROUND
I HAVE A MESSAGE FOR YOU
ITS FROM THE TITANS
*pops glowing angel wings*
WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM

Grimmgor wrote:
not trying to start an argument like last time, but you can't seriously say with a straight face that algalon was a hard fight, other then the fact your tank could die instantly. the only errors you could make were killing stars as meteors (i don't remember what they were called) hit, or not moving into the void zone. that was literally the extent of the fight.


No - I'd agree. Algalon wasn't a particularly hard encounter. But easy, no. It definitely was a good meter of skill, especially in terms of how long and how much overgearing it took people to be able to reliably do it.

Algalon is what I like to call a "fundamental" encounter. It's the basics: taunting on time, picking things up, using cds, not standing in the fire, spreading out, attacking adds, moving on time, all the while putting out a massive volume of healing and damage. Due to good encounter design, brilliant lore/RP, attractive and highly original graphics, epic presentation, and appropriate and well-balanced loot, it succeeded in doing what most "fundamental" encounters don't, which is being fun and interesting. Negative examples would be most dragon encounters, Brutallus and the like.

I honestly think Algalon was quite possibly the best implemented encounter in the history of WoW.

I think it was particularly good how Algalon was a "fundamental" encounter and the end boss was exactly the opposite - a highly dynamic and unconventional encounter. I think it's also good that the optional hard-only boss was a "fundamental" encounter - the paradox that the best raiders are most better at the basics.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.


Last edited by Aestu on Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:02 pm  
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Pinheaded Pissant
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Kamguh wrote:
Jushiro wrote:
dek wrote:
best title is still bloodsail admiral.

Y'ARRRRRRR.


Of Gnomeregan


worst title


worst death knight


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Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:14 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
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go delete again :(
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:35 pm  
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Obtuse Oaf
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Jenkins is the best title I thought...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:12 pm  
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French Faggot
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Stone Guard.

Or Gladiator, but only after Season 1.


If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh
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