Aestu wrote:
If attempting an instance with multiple bosses, consider: how far will you go? Who would want to do the number of bosses you intend to do? A pug leader who seeks to reserve a particular piece of loot for himself from an instance will find more success in filling his raid and obtaining what he wants by conceiving motivations for other players to come. For example, it is wise to fill such raids with less geared players, who will understand that the raid leader is there for a particular piece of loot, and therefore can feel confident that he will not seek to compete with them for the drops that they want and he no longer needs, while appreciating that this is a raid favorable to their level, as opposed to raids with broader objectives in which they will not be welcome or able to function. Conversely, misrepresenting one's intentions will only appeal to stupid players, and filling a raid with stupid players is typically self-defeating.
I understand the theory of what you are saying. However, I do not agree with it. Based on past experience on bleeding hollow, those people that reserve one piece of loot "DBW reserved" are the raids I tend to avoid. With a few minor exceptions of people I know and trust. I have heard several times where the RL who reserved dbw was upset when it didn't drop, and disbanded the raid. I have also seen a raid leader get mad that it didnt drop and instead take one of the tier tokens. Reserving loot, in my mind, is a selfish act. I do understand your logic but I think it is flawed as far as how people actually behave in game. Even worse are the pugs who state "Reserving one piece from Kel-Thuzad. Will let you know when I see the drops." I remember those pugs from back in the day and they were always below par.
Aestu wrote:
-During days and times most guilds are raiding
Most important. I saw a group trying to form the last two days for ICC25 with no lucik (obviously if he was still looking the next day).
I might also add "Unwise to form raids the day of a patch" as most people are busy fixing their ui's, figuring out new abilities, rekeybinding everything, etc.
One thing I thought of, and not sure if it is in the next few sections as I havent gotten there yet, is putting a time constraint on forming your pug. When I start to form a pug I make it very clear to the group around what time the first pull will be made, as well as the cutoff time for filling the group. It is bad form to make your raiders wait an hour while you fill up. Normally I can tell within 5 minutes if we will be able to fill the full 25 spots just based on the number of people who come to me for inspect. I make sure to keep the raid updated on what our plan is for starting.
Aestu wrote:
IV. Advertising
In WoW as in life there is a single fundamental to successful advertising: Credibility.
Credibility is most often undermined by the following:
-Bad spelling/capitalization
-CAPS LOCK
-Spamming
-Leetspeek/nerd-type language
-Trash talk
-Unrealistic objectives
-Unrealistic loot policy
-Objectives that are irrationally selfish
-Expression of biases, peeves, impatience, hostility or anger
-A "loser" attitude
-I AM A BAD PLAYER
-"No noobs", "Be pro", etc
-"Guild run" or other strong indicators of favoritism
This is a great list. I instantly avoid any pugs I see that advertise with these types of things.
I would like to add that my normal advertisement for my saturday ICC pug is:
"lfm ICC25. Fresh/geared. pst"
Then I set my dnd as "Dal north bank steps for inspect"
After I start fleshing out the raid and notice what spots we need I will switch to:
"lfm ICC25 Need 1 tank, 1 tree, 2 range dps. Fresh/geared. pst"
I prefer very short advertisements. I don't go over my loot rules until I have everyone in the raid so as to avoid repeating myself 100 times.
Aestu, your way is probably a little more accurate for those that do not pug often. A "Advertising for Beginners" guide. I think after you do the same run every week, and other players recognize your advertisement and what the correlates to as far as raid quality, then you can switch to a short and simple raid advertisement.
Aestu wrote:
It is a myth that pugs are individuals. In reality very few people in real life or in-game are individuals. The overwhelming majority of people and pugs are not individuals, but conform to various archetypes.
I am not going to comment on every one of the archetypes you have listed.
But I am pretty sure that all human beings can also be broken down in the same sort of archtype structure. I am not doing much digging around but I know I have seen a breakdown like that for personalities of human beings. So in a way the pugs are individuals that just sort of apply to the archetypes that normal people would.
The interesting thing is that when people get into the game, 99% abandon their normal archetype outside of the wow world and adapt a new one. Thus the danger, and fun, of internet anonymity.
Aestu wrote:
An obedient and reliable pug who is a mediocre player with mediocre gear is a far superior pug to a skilled but uncontrollable player, or an overgeared but retarded player.
A great point and 100% agreed
Aestu wrote:
Another myth that must be debunked: that making assumptions is foolish. Quite the contrary; the skilled pug leader must learn to make assumptions, and make them fast and on a minimum of input. He must learn to size people up, judge their character and level of intelligence and experience, feel out their goals. In real life we call this "street smarts".
Quite good sir. I love this. And absolutely true.
Aestu wrote:
Casual players with lives are good material. So are PvPers, provided they are controllable. Other good pug archetypes are hardcore players who play for fun, even if the content does not offer them high iLvL epix; eager, moon-eyed newbs; and alts of experienced players.
I will have to disagree with you here. I have had a majority of bad luck in the past with pvp'ers. Granted fltwd was pvp at heart and probably my favorite person I have ever raided with. But even he can't outweigh the pile of awful pvp'ers I have had in pugs who were decently geared. Then again I might have the bad end of the stick seeing as how EQ used to be horde. Eq used to bring his pvp friends in to the raid, which ended up just being a disaster with long afk's without letting me know, racist language in raid chat, not following raid mechanics. Maybe I just have a bad taste in my mouth from the pvp'ers but I tend to avoid them like the plague when it comes to forming pugs.
Something at add here after reading all of your achetypes.
I think it is a mistake to draw lines connecting in game behavior to their lives out of game.
Of course you were just making sweeping generalizations to explain the archetype.
I would, however, understand that, as I mentioned above, 99% of wow players are "someone else" in game. I will give an example of mister "Muertedolor". One of the more opinionated, combatative, outspoken people in our vent, our raids, and on forums. Meet him in real life and he is the nicest most relaxed guy you will ever know. People change for the game. Whether this be conscious or not, it happens ALMOST to everyone.
Aestu wrote:
Do not let them ever have reason to believe you are losing hope or that your efforts to fill the raid are waning.
Ok here is what I was mentioning earlier. I actually disagree with this point. I am very open and honest with the people who join my raids so I let them know up front "Ok we have been looking for 15 minutes, I need 3 more dps if anyone knows someone please refer them to me. I will continue looking for five more minutes"
Something like that. It lets the raiders know that I am not here to waste their time. I am getting this raid started pronto and with the correct people, or we will disband and either try later in the day or another day. I actually feel that this strengthens the communication with the raid and opens up for a more honest raid experience in pugs. To each his own of course.
Aestu wrote:
Never answer tells asking how many players in raid. Such players are impatient and dangerous to a raid's viability as they may leave early and set an example for others to do so.
My answer to this is always "0 < # in raid < 25".
I have that macro'd.
The only exception is if I know the person.
Aestu wrote:
Never invite a pug's friends to a raid. Friends of pugs are typically very bad players, because good players play the game in their own right, rather than because their friend happens to, and therefore take the initiative to do things for themselves - such as sending a tell asking for an invite - rather than be ineffectually guided through the game by the friend who is asking for an invite for him. Being told that someone is "really good" or "my friend" or - worst of all - a relative or significant other - is a red flag. NEVER invite relatives or significant others of pugs.
I agree with this 95% of the time. People refer their undergeared friends most of the time. The way to get around that is to obviously just subject their friend to an inspect like the everyone else. I will, however, add the clause that I have been able to trust some peoples /vouch in the past. Some guildies who I know are extra solid players have referred an old friend of theirs or a previous guildie to me, and I have been very pleased with their performance. This of course takes time in getting to know people and probably doesnt apply here since the whole basis is that you are pugging the entire raid and thus you do not know anyone.
Aestu wrote:
Never take more than 10% or so of a raid's population from a single guild, as they will support each other and undermine the raid. If one leaves, they all will, and this can break a raid.
Again disagree. If you are in good standing with another guild then things usually work out. For example, my pugs often contain serveral Totem Totem Totem guildies. They have always been especially good raiders in our pugs and often times we will have 6-7 of them in the saturday run. On the other hand, there are particular guilds horde side (one which broke up) that Iw ill not admit even one of their members to my raids.
Aestu wrote:
When doing pre-invites through Blizzard Calendar, always demand an RSVP.
I hope everyone uses this calendar. I use it for every raid I do and it makes the formation process incredibly easy as well as allows you to see before hand what classes you are going to need so you can reach out to select people before the raid time even comes.
Aestu wrote:
In examining gear, consider several points:
-Does the pug use gear that takes skill to get?
-Does the pug use gear that has the same cost to acquire as superior gear?
-Does the pug use good BoEs?
-Does the pug use bad BoEs?
-Does the pug use poor quality gear with obvious, easily available upgrades?
-Does the pug use well-itemized gear with a very low item level?
-Does the pug have an obsolete tier set with contemporary gems and enchants?
Gems and enchants are often the first indicator for me that something is wrong.
Baby gems, low level enchants are my first pass. There is no reason at this late stage in the game that anyone should be sporting that stuff. Badges are readily available through heroics and if someone doesnt want to spend the time collecting badges for gems, then they are a pass for my pugs.
Gems can also indicate an immediate lack of knowledge of ones class. Thus bringing me to a "decline" conclusion in about 10 seconds.
One thing I would also mention, I would NEVER say that I am the knowledge of all classes and how they should gear, gem, enchant, glyph, etc. But that is why when I am running my saturday pug I usually have two people standing on the stairs with me. Shavyah, Kungfoo and trowbz are usually on their alts inspecting at the same time as I am. Between us four we have played every class in a raid environment and thus collectively we can see any oddity in a pug. IMO it is important to have those other perspectives from people you trust and who you know are knowledgeable on the topic.
Aestu wrote:
It is important to note that although many of these are not difficult, they correlate with a probability of experience and mental investment in the game that in turn often correlate with skill.
I like this. I often look back at old achievements over current ones. There are several tough fights from past content that required top notch raid mechanics to complete. People with those achievements would be a solid pick in my opinion. A fight like Lady Vashj when content was relevant was a bit tough (btw that is my favorite fight in the game). Anyone with that achievement back at level 70 would be a good pick.
Aestu wrote:
Maintaining the momentum of a pug is crucial. Players play to play, not to sit around and wait. Vacillation is fatal. If it's not possible to engage a boss, fight another one, or pull some trash, or at least start some small talk or call for a break.
A great quote. I have seen several pug runs fail at putricide but continue beating their heads against a wall trying to get it down wyhile players just slowly leave the raid. You should be able to tell after one pull if your group to handle the fight. And if not, it is time to move on.
Aestu wrote:
-Decisiveness
-Honesty
-Reliability
-Responsibility
-Open-Mindedness
-Mercuriality
-Assertiveness
-Initiative
-Charisma
-Humor
This is a great list.
Aestu wrote:
Micromanagement is a good thing. Especially when leading pugs, always err on the side of giving specific instructions. Tell specific people to do specific things.
/agree. Even though players may say "yeah yeah I know the fight", it is definitely better to specifically assign all important parts of the fights. As taking the extra minute to give out tasks is going to be far better than wasting 10 minutes to get everyone back in the raid and buffed after a wipe due to a mechanic failure.
Aestu wrote:
A positive raid environment is vital to success. Good players who play well don't want to raid like a forced march, or play with a power-tripping tyrant. Maximize the fun factor. Encourage small talk. Be self-deprecating. Be fair. Address individuals in the raid. Put down players who insult other players or usurp authority.
Absolutely. Always make it a habit to congratulate those who did well on previous fights. Even if what you are commending someone for is second nature to them, pointing out that you, as the raid leader, appreciate that they did that, boosts the self esteem. After every boss dies in my pugs I make sure to give the "Alright great job guys. That was extra smooth." as I am doing loot and moving everyone to the next area. Positive reinforcement is a great tool in keeping the raid together. I also think that, as you mentioned, putting down players who insults others is absolutely crucial. I even take linking meters as a means to insult other raiders. Meters in raid chat is banned from my raids and those who do it only receive one warning. Anyone making disparaging remarks to another player are also removed instantly. Friend, guildie, stranger...whatever...that sort of behaior should never be tolerated.
Aestu wrote:
If this means changing the strat or admitting failure or ignorance or apologizing and doing a mea culpa so be it.
You have no idea how many times I have been in raids where the leader will fail at some mechanic, and then blame it on someone else. Completely the opposite of what you should do.
"Oohhhh yeah I fucked that up. Haha sorry guys let's get back in and do that again. My fault, won't happen again"
I can't even count how many times I have said that. That is crucial for everyone, raiders and raid leaders alike. Own up to your mistakes. Everone makes them.
Aestu wrote:
Likewise, embrace the limitations of yourself, the raid, and human factors such as time, energy and patience. Continue so long as there is a reasonable chance of success - then take the initiative to call the raid before it turns ugly.
One thing that is important to remember is the TimeSpent to Reward ratio. As time goes on during your raid, it will be tougher to keep pugs interested and playing because the more gear that has been given out, the less gear their is to get ahead of the raid. Thus as time goes on it is important to step up the positive feedback to the raid, keep them informed of where you are heading, what bosses are next, etc. How far you plan on going. Reiterate to the raid that you will be killing 10/12 in ICC. Keep their attention.
Aestu wrote:
best of all, the excitement of playing with randoms, widening one's horizons and seeing the playerbase.
I love that you added this because it is my own pesonal drive for pugging. I love playing with new people. Most people are afraid to bring a pug into their 9/10 guild ICC10 heroic run, I love it. You should never be afraid to meet new people in the game. You never know where your connection might take you. Might have a new regular in your pug, might have a new guildie, might make a connection irl, who knows.
Read the whole thing and enjoyed the read.
Thank you for posting this. Hopefully my remarks do not come off as "You are wrong, this is the way things should be". Merely giving my opinion.
