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I'll be the first to tell you I'm not the best at WoW. However, I'm at least semi-competent, and won't wipe groups.

Since getting Cata, i've been trying to do a random dungeon each day to help with leveling/gear.

I do this as holy to queue faster. I gotta say...wow. Just wow.

I'm going to start tracking specifics (seriously, I will track every random I get in)...but I'd say 3/4 tanks are absolutely awful. People don't know the fights in new instances, and won't follow directions when given. I'll be healing, and mark targets for DPS (since people often forget how to focus-fire/single target DPS) and DPS will just ignore. Why kill skull when you can spam blizzard and see big numbers pop up?

Also, people simply stand in bad zones...and expect you to heal them. Then, they might die, and then they get mad "why didn't you heal me?"

Well, I was healing you, but after a while...just standing in poison getting raped...I have to keep the tank alive too yaknow.

Blizz has kinda made this problem though...because WotlK was just AOE EVERYTHING LOLOL it made people forget what the hell CC is, and also forget that you can't be an absolute dumbass chain pulling everything and expect to survive.

Have players gotten worse? I feel like it wasn't this bad until WotlK...perhaps I have my nostalgic bias, but I really think the average player knows much less about the game and how to play than in the past.

It makes random queues painful.

On a side note...holy priest healing is really REALLY fun. So compliments to Blizz on that.

TLDR - Are players just worse now than they used to be? Or is it coz there are more of them, you just run into more baddies?

Sorry couldn't help it.

85 Mage Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 LOLKnight Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......
85 Shaman Bleeding Hollow Bored with game so I let sub expire......

i started using recount again the other day and have found out that i am usually #1-2 dps on every boss fight i encounter =/
hell, at 85 people are still doing 3000dps on single-targets...

also, yeah, people attacking unmarked targets is annoying

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sunshine.kittens.bubblegum.happythoughts

The player-base didn't get worse, it just changed.

As you say, Wrath took a lot of the skill out of dungeoneering. Everyone AoE'd everything with no CCs (healers included in many cases). While I appreciate bringing the game back to a point where an instance requires coordination and skill, I think Blizzard moved the bar back too quickly. All of the new players that started during Wrath are going to be completely unprepared for pre-Wrath game styles.

I also think that they went a little over board with the difficulty of healing (though I can't speak to this personally since I've yet to heal on anything this expansion). Helig was telling me that many healers, even some that he's run with that seem to be competent, are having major mana issues. It really doesn't help that a lot of these Wrathbabies are used to being healed regardless of w/e dumbassery they pull (like standing in the fire). It's a lot of extra stress on the healer(s), who, like tanks, don't need the additional heartaches. Building DPS into the healing rotation for mana management was probably a bad idea, especially with the LFG tool tossing you in with idiots.

Overall, the changes make sense, especially since instances should never have been converted into five minute AoE-fests. I don't think we can really say a majority of the player base is stupid until a month or so has passed. The true test of the group IQ ist going to be whether or not it adapts to the changes, or continues beating its head against a wall.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

they're still playing wotlk, where cata is easier with cc and losing pulls.


Still, the playerbase isnt good. Give it a month and youll be more disappointed.

Hahahaha nice. I'm not raging, just more in awe than anything. It's gotten to the point where I get annoyed with bads...but I'm just like... "wow...really? You're really that bad?"

When I've joined pugs as shadow thus far in cata, I've led in DPS every single time. My gear isn't that good (pretty much ICC 264, with some new Cata blues mixed in). I find myself thinking...am I really awesome, or do people just suck?

I haven't done any instances, but I do know I was attacked by two level 85 players while I was level 82, and both of them died like bitches without even presenting a challenge.

And I'm TERRIBLE at pvp.

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face

My pug experience has been so so. On my lock I am consitently tops on dps while using glyphed fear all the time. I have a really nice focus macro that makes cc a breeze. I actually got yelled at, like he typed /y STOP FUCKING FEARING YOUR GONNA PULL THE NEXT PACK, since he was too dumb to notice the feared target was not moving at all. This was the same 130k tank that would consistently get down to about 20k health two seconds into the pull because the thought he could still aoe tank. I have had several tanks that would call for cc on marked targets and assign who did what. And best of all was the group of four people in the same guild that had us wiping 20 times in a heroic and they thought it was fun, forgetting that I was stuck in there with them, lol. I tanked once on my pally and got tired of people pulling extra mobs because they thought it was fun and healers screaming they were oom after spamming moonfire during pulls.

9 level 90s and 10 85s, Damn I need another hobby.

heroics have been awful for me.

I went Fury and I'm fairly certain I do a bit more damage than I did at 80, which is a good sign. I was Arms to level, though. I contributed to DPS being atrocious while pre-85 because I did what was fun rather than what was right.

I don't at all see the "going back to pre-Wrath" thing this is supposed to be. Healers in BC didn't go OOM after bombing 10 big heals. Shit, healers in Vanilla didn't have to pot that much, and for the most part in raids they had to have healer rotations where some people literally did nothing except regen for minutes at a time. I get that they're trying to make healing "challenging" so that it compares to other roles, but let's be honest here: DPS was never challenging, and anyone who contends otherwise is a deluded fruitcake. Tanking was the only thing that's ever taken an iota of skill, and even then you basically had to have working hands and not be completely retarded to coast to victory.

I'm not defending whinebots who want free gear. Hell, I haven't even done a heroic yet. I'm just not sure this new healing model is any more fun than having a bunch of angry midgets stabbing you in the knees while you fumble for spells.

Oh well. PvP was a blast even though BG queues were 30 minutes long.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Give it a few months for the first raid content patch and then dungeons will go back to a more wrath-like feel with gear inflation.

Yeah i know, thats why i 2v1d you and your bro

To answer the original topic. Yes the player base has become worse according to vanilla and even TBC standards.

Players that were around when heroics were hard and needed CC are far and few between. All of the pally/dk tanks that would pull an entire room full of mobs and let the dps aoe the shit out of them are now discovering that they now have to find some sort of skill.

Healers who were used to spamming the shit out of their big heals just simply because they could are now oom 1/4 of the way through a fight and let dps die becasue of it.

DPS have had to learn to break out those old crowd control things that have been gathering dust in their spell books. Rogues that dont know how to distract then sap are funny to watch get killed. I do find it interesting how many priest thing mind control is a cc.

All in all, health pools are higher and mobs hit harder, but this reminds me more of begining heroics in BC than anything else, without the rep grind to get into heroics, which btw I am a big fan of and wish they had brought back. I really laugh every time I see Blizzards gear rating on the character page, I just simply have to laugh.

9 level 90s and 10 85s, Damn I need another hobby.

No. Most players have always been bad. There was never a golden time when pug runs in dungeons routinely went smoothly, or when most pvpers didn't run around like idiots and fight on the roads. If anything people have gotten somewhat better as classes become more challenging to play well and min-maxing becomes more valued.

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris