Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

Just another example of why our government is terrible.

As usual, proud of my country, ashamed of my government.

Why generalize? This is the fault of very specific House members. Blame them.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

Yep.

It's pretty simple, Housies (and Republicans in general): If you want to change healthcare, get elected. No seriously. Get your asses elected. If you think your solution to this problem is so much better, then take the presidency, take the senate, and take the house. Majorities in all. Super majorities if you want! You say the American people don't want Obamacare. So I suppose he didn't win reelection and the democrats didn't keep the senate. Oh wait...

Don't attach stupid things to the funding of the government just to get what YOU want. And I really don't want to hear "yeah but you dems do it all the time", don't waste my time. I mean, are you telling me that you guys WANT to be similar to the party that you hate so much? You're THAT dumb? That's not how it's done. Obamacare is law, a constitutional law. The majority of the people in this country want it. It's how Obama is still in office. It's how we still have the Senate. If it fails, we only have ourselves to blame. If it succeeds, well.. just don't be a conservative near me! I'll have too much fun.

But fund the damn government. Do your jobs. Ty.

/end rant

PS I forget which politician made the point about getting elected if you want things to change, but it was a good point. I'm just reiterating it here, with a little flair.

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

They did get elected. Now you're bitching because they're exercising the power of their office. President Obama's re-election wasn't a referendum on the ACA, especially since he did everything he could during the election to avoid the issue. You can't make the "elections matter" argument in a vacuum. President Obama won his last election, but so did all those guys sitting in the House and Senate you're bitching about right now, and the people that elected them did so to repeal the ACA.



Sorry, that's politics. Why do you think all our bills are novels of stupidity with wholly unrelated riders?



You can't really make the "moral high ground" argument against trying to repeal the ACA. There wouldn't be an ACA to repeal if it hadn't been passed strictly along party lines using procedures (reconciliation) to avoid the vote that should have been taken on it in the Senate.



The Debt Ceiling is a law, too. So is all the Patriot Act bullshit that lets the NSA do their little secret court bullshit. If we can't change or repeal the ACA because "it's the law," then we can't raise the Debt Ceiling, because it's the law, too. We can't repeal the Patriot Act, because it's the law.



Three out of the last four polls I saw showed anywhere from 47% to 58% opposition to the ACA. The one that showed a slight margin in favor of the law was from a polling group I'd never heard of before that I saw that poll.



President Obama is still in office because Mitt Romney was a terrible fucking candidate, the "republicans are going to take away your birth control/abortion" "war on women" scare tactics, and to some degree because the IRS held up tax status approvals for conservative groups while rubber stamping all but a few liberal groups. If it had been a straight referendum on the ACA, we'd be looking at Mitt Romney's creepy Stepford Smile on the news right now.



Fair enough.



We wouldn't be bitching about the Continuing Resolution nonsense if the senate could pass a fucking budget. Harry Reid hasn't gotten a budget out of his chamber in over four years, and in a few of those years he didn't even bother to try because he didn't want members of his caucus to have to answer for their votes during elections. You might not like the budgets the House have passed. You might think it's bullshit that they're using the power of the purse (which, if you read the Constitution is the where the House's power lies) to achieve their policy goals. What you can't honestly do is bitch about republicans when budgets aren't being passed when they're passing a budget and the senate hasn't passed one in years.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

I'm "bitching" about them attaching nonsense to the budget and then shutting down the government, adversely affecting millions, because they didn't get their way. That's it. And I never said that because it's law it shouldn't be debated. But using the attach-to-budget tactic to try and force a repeal won't only backfire, it will take millions of Americans down with it. There is a way to repeal it, if they so desire to try. Get more power and then use that power. Thye haven't because they can't right now (oh man I can't wait for this misguided era of conservatism being on equal footing with liberalism to be over...). People simply don't want a conservative agenda. And they are going to want it even less now that they have decided to shut down the government. Quite embarrassing.

And if mittens was a bad candidate, why pick him as the front runner? Was he the best you guys had? Get better candidates. And if opposition is so widespread, why aren't there more Republicans in office? That was my point (initially anyway, I might have veered off a bit lol)

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

"Do what we want or we'll burn the fucking country to the ground" isn't the House doing its job, it's attempted extortion followed by a temper tantrum.

But hey, there's some good in all this. Namely, the Republicans who aren't total retards weren't on board with Boehner's plan, but the Hastert Rule means that the whiny crybaby (I know you hate pussified Americans, Jubber, so what gives?) can quash any reasonable proposal coming from his own party.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

You call it nonsense, they call it policy, and it's a lot more legitimate than the reconciliation chicanery that was used to pass the ACA which is also adversely affecting millions of Americans.



Funny, that's been the implication--if not the outright statement--of everyone using that nonsense "it's the law" line of bullshit.



Did you see the other candidates? Would you rather have had Santorum?



The House passed 13 budgets this summer, all of which Harry Reid tossed in his desk. The House passed three continuing resolutions in the past week, all of which Reid killed, even the third one that would have granted everyone the same exemptions President Obama gave out to his cronies and forced the congress to live on the same plan they were forcing everyone else into.

You know, that raises the question: If the ACA is "the law" and it's too vital for the republicans to repeal, defer, defund, or delay, why is it that President Obama is delaying it for a chosen few?



Boehner was dragged to the defunding battle kicking and screaming. Before Ted Cruz and a handful of others wound up the base Boehner and Cantor were planning on a show vote that would let house members say that voted to repeal the ACA even though it wouldn't actually make any changes.

It's more than a little disingenuous to complain about Boehner using the Hastert Rule when Harry Reid wouldn't even open up any of the last three bills to amendments (other than his own)...not even from reasonable members of his own party, the whiny crybaby.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Wooo the government is shut down! Everything is legal! I'm going looting!



EDIT: ....Just not at a National Park.

No it's not! What! Maybe there some pushing and pressure from the left, but Republicans had more than enough power to kill it if they deemed it terrible. It's only afterwards they all started crying about paying a little more in taxes for downtrodden people that they started making excuses about how they were forced into it and whatnot. All about the money.



That may be so, but it wasn't my point. The point was that it is law and an upheld one, so the typical Republican "unconstitutional" and "illegal" arguments don't hold any water (as with most Republican standpoints).



I did see the other candidates. All were abhorrent. It is a common theme for the Republican party. If Santorum and Romney are the best you can do, maybe take a break from politics for a few decades. Fundamentally change your approach. All it shows is how non-viable conservatism is nowadays.



Yes, they were all killed because they included some stupid attachment or another. When children just won't stop crying until they get their way, the best thing you can do is ignore them until they see their own errors. I will, however, cautiously agree about the exemption points. I have been hearing about them on conservative radio (of which I am an avid listener and fan) but I never remember to look into them further.

[✔] [item]Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker[/item] (Three)
[✔] [item]Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]32837[/item] & [item]32838[/item]
[✔] [item]Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury[/item]
[✔] [item]46017[/item]
[✔] [item]49623[/item] (Two)
[✔] [item]71086[/item]

The ACA is an imperfect solution to a very complex problem with no easy solution (costs of healthcare in America, by far the highest in the world).

The problem is, and Jubber, despite your love of the republicans and what they're doing, you do realize this is hurting them in the long term, yes? You realize they are fractured within themselves, yes? You realize this "shutdown" isn't going to work, yes?

You realize that if someone doesn't have health insurance, the US taxpayers pay for them anyway, yes?

Get spanked by Azelma, Mns and Tuhl. Damn.

This whole thing blows, how am I gonna know if we're gonna die from an Asteroid now?

https://twitter.com/AsteroidWatch

They had the ability to filibuster the bill in the senate after Scott Brown won the seat left vacant by Ted Kennedy..in Massachusetts, one of the blueiest of blue states. That's why democrats used the reconciliation procedure, which was supposed to be reserved to pass budgets, to bypass the filibuster. Eighty of the democrats who voted to pass the bill in the House were lame ducks who had just lost their elections because their constituents were opposed to the bill.



Not only is that not one of the things anyone has been griping about, this is a repeat of the "you're greedy if you want to keep your own money but there's nothing wrong with wanting the government to take someone else's cash to give to you" things you like so much.



No one has been calling it either of those things since the Supreme Court decision was passed. They still want to repeal it. Much like democrats would like to repeal and/or amend the debt ceiling later this month. If you're going to go with the "it's the law" argument, you're not going to be happy when republicans start using that same line to thwart policies with which you agree.



So should democrats have taken a twenty year sabbatical because the best candidate they could front in 2004 was John Kerry?



At least you can admit that much, LOL. If the ACA is "the law," and we can't change it or repeal it, then President Obama shouldn't be able to modify it, either...especially since the Executive Branch doesn't write legislation. Republicans didn't even ask to remove all the exemptions with the last CR, they just asked that all of Congress, themselves included, not be subsidized and had to abide by the same terms of the ACA as the rest of the country, and that every citizen be given the same one-year exemption the president had granted to numerous others. I don't know how that was such a non-starter for Harry Reid or President Obama.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

It occurs to me that someone who does the huffy "taking my football and going home" bit when they're confronted with facts that contradict their world-view probably shouldn't try to set themselves up as arbiter of "who got told."

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste