Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

At what cost of gas, your food, and your savings will a weak dollar be frightening to you then, if it isn't now? If inflation is still increasing faster than we can save, and saving isn't being encouraged by the actions of our Federal Reserve, I'm sorry but i'm still concerned and AMAZED at anyone who isn't.

also I really need to get a tattoo on the top of my hand that says: "WAIT, please refrain from forumcraft,facebook, and cell phone after 3+ drinks"

Again, most of the gas and food price increases have nothing to do with the Fed. As well exchange rates aren't that important for US food prices - you grow most of your own food and are net exporters, and raw material costs are a small fraction of the costs of most foods. Either way, I pay more for gas here than Americans do ($1.20 per liter last time I filled up, which is ~$4.50 per gallon), and the sky hasn't fallen yet.

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

I'm not an expert on what the Fed does or how it does it, but I do know that our current 'crony capitalism' model that rewards political allies with mandates, subsidies, tax breaks, and regulations that apply to one/some but not all leads to serious market distortions. When the government(s) attempt(s) to modify the natural market cycle to prevent the natural down-cycles that occur, all they really do is postpone and compound those down-cycles, and this is exemplified by what happened with the housing market.

If ethanol wasn't mandated for use, both through actual mandates and by excluding the MTBE alternative, because of politicians of both parties seeking political advantage, the price of gas and food would not be going up. If not for the way the ethanol mandates/subsidies are currently formed, we could be using real estate not fit for food production to produce scrub grasses and other non-food plants to use in ethanol production.

If the US government would leave the funds in the private sector instead of taxing to promote 'pet project' alternative energy sources, like solar and wind, those funds would be allocated by the market for use in areas where something is actually produced (or even in the development of alternative energy sources, even including wind and solar)...but only so long as the market is not distorted by the sort of 'crony capitalism' under which we currently suffer.

Further, with the current state of affairs in the Middle East, stopping the production of domestic oil by attempting to bar drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, along the Eastern seaboard, and in ANWAR is doing nothing but guaranteeing dependence on foreign sources and leaving the market at the mercy of events in a volatile region. On top of that, domestic fuel production and availability is hampered by continuing to hold in place overtly excessive regulations that discourage the building of new refining infrastructure, which also puts our supply in jeopardy since the bulk of our refining infrastructure is in a region prone to heavy damage from natural disasters.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

But Jubber, we can't drill here! First, I don't want to see extractors in my back yard. Secondly, remember the BP Oil Disaster!? Think of all the ocean life that died in that event. Thirdly, it's bad for the environment -- we need all wind and solar energiessss.

Opening up drilling in the parts of the US that are currently closed wouldn't have a significant effect on oil prices. There just isn't enough accessible oil left in the US to make a big difference. I think a free-market approach to energy production is a good idea, but simply eliminating existing subsidies (including those to oil companies, which are quite a bit higher than those to renewable energy companies) isn't enough. There are large negative externalities associated with oil production and use, and until pollution has an actual price to account for these externalities, the market for energy won't be truly free.

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

Again, when a currency is worth less, it buys less. So if I have to pay more for anything (including food, and oil), because of the federal reserve destroying my currency via inflation, then something needs to be done about them.

Again, bringing in market factors isn't making me feel better about the destruction of my country's currency at the hands of an entity that is separate from the branches of the US government.

The sky hasn't fallen, but if you are being robbed, when are you going to do something about it? When you have nothing left?

lol'd, I actually remember watching this episode probably 5x as a kid.. flashing back to tailspin and darkwing duck thnxalot

You're completely ignoring the fact that the Fed isn't destroying your currency or robbing you, and you're in no danger of being left with nothing left. The effect of Fed actions is best measured by core inflation, which is very very low. Commodity prices are showing some inflation but that has nothing to do with the Fed, and the US dollar is dropping a bit relative to other currencies but again that has little to do with the Fed. I can see that you're mad at the Fed, but if you think high commodity prices or low exchange rates are the problem then your anger is misplaced.

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

So you're ignoring the actions of the Federal Reserve and the results of their actions to the US dollar since they were formed? You can see I'm upset with the fed, but can you see that a basic principle of currency debasement by creating more of it with more debt makes it worth less at the cost to the US public at no risk to the Federal Reserve.

Inflation is inflation, and inflation is currency destruction, debt is debt, the US is in it, and the Federal Reserve is encouraging it. Oh yeah bubbles:

edit: at least watch it to see him pwn Ben Stein lol



ok i go to bed z

Man, I'm really happy whenever Laelia posts in argument threads.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

What do you think has been happening to the dollar since the Fed was formed? It's been around for almost 100 years and the US dollar has been a viable currency for that entire period. Inflation is inflation, but it's not currency destruction. Inflation has been happening about as long as the dollar has existed, and yet the dollar still exists and can still be exchanged for goods and services. There is no problem here except your irrational fear of inflation.

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

Drunk tattoo on my hand, unquoted, troll worts, or $5 in gas?
here's a graff:

I suppose that makes sense depending on how you're going to define "significant." Currently, for every dollar the price a barrel of oil increases, the price at the pump increases by $.02 per gallon. Any new production is going lower the price per barrel by putting more on the market (supply up/price down), and even the difference of $5 per barrel is going to change pump prices (which is the way the American consumer views energy prices) by $.10 per gallon, which in the eyes of most consumers is significant. Obviously, new supplies wouldn't hit the market immediately, but in the long term, this is the best option, especially given the volatile nature of the region of the world from which we import most of our supply.

On that note, the reason that we import so much from the Middle East isn't because we're "running out," but because regulations and mandates have slowed the flow. In Texas, most new wells aren't for petroleum, they're for natural gas. Why? Because the there is a wider profit margin in natural gas, and less red tape. There is also the issue of having to drill deeper, but that would not be an issue in previously untapped regions, like the Eastern Seaboard and ANWAR, for quite some time.

We're already paying the price for pollution at the pump, in the form of the regulations meant to curtail it which increase the prices. I have no issue with necessary and reasonable regulation, but you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that all the regulations impeding new drilling/exploration, new refineries, and other new infrastructure are reasonable and necessary. If anything, we're far more responsible here than in many other parts of the world, especially emerging economies like China and India. with whom we compete for these resources. While I wouldn't want us doing business the way they do, and agree that there need to be requirements to prevent pollution, the current cost/benefit calculation is, as far as I'm concerned, costing too much for too little discernible benefit.

If the concerns of those worried over 'peak oil' fears are correct, the cost of petroleum as a fuel source will eventual increase to a point where we will be forced to use other sources...perhaps even ethanol. Remember that petroleum was not always in demand, and was in fact once an impediment to industry, since it was sometimes found in salt-mines, where it ruined the material industry was there to harvest. It was not until someone played with the crude and discovered that it could be run through a still to make cheap lamp oil that anyone had any interest in the stuff. Diesel engines were originally designed to run off of animal and plant oils until it was found that one of the by-products of petroleum refining was cheaper and more effective. Those were innovations that occurred without a government prodding it to happen with subsidies...and the next wave of energy innovations are more likely going to be the result of some serendipitous event or guy screwing around in his garage.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

The dollar, since the Fed was conceived, has been slowly losing value until the late 1970's when we abandoned the Gold Standard and just started printing money because we could print money -- at that point the Fed started to accelerate the devaluing of money. Look at 2009 when the Fed printed $1T out of thin air. You're right - the dollar still exists but when you print money like that it makes the money less valuable meaning you need more of it to purchase goods and services. If we had some way to change metals to gold, the value of gold would drop because we could create as much of it as we wanted. If everyone in the world had a doctorates in some biology-related field, your education wouldn't be worth as much since it'd be a dime a dozen. The dollar is no different, especially when there is nothing backing it's value.

Seriously, this is one big game of moving money from your right pocket to your left. You write yourself an IOU, then you tell yourself you're going to pay yourself back with money that you're about to make, then you make the money and give it back to yourself and that somehow settles the score and makes you twice as rich?

Until OPEC reduces production to compensate.



I know the political line is to hate the fed, but a strong dollar is what pushed our industry to China and India and why we haven't had a trade surplus since the late 70's. Now we need our industry and we need a weak dollar.

Dvergar /
Quisling