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Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

This past Saturday I spent some time researching this video as well. I figured a five-minute political clip that uses footage over the course of a couple hours had to have an agenda. I opened the video in Youtube and I saw that it was from CAIR, so I knew there was clearly a bias. Of course the video is going to show the protesters in a horrible light since CAIR has an agenda they want to advance. I mean, the description of the video goes so far as to mention one of the groups is listed as a hate group according to the SPLC... but CAIR doesn't tell you one of the speakers belonged to an SPLC hate group, as well.

First, I looked into who was sponsoring the meeting. ICNA, Islamic Circle of North America, was hosting the event. They are a group that evolved from the Muslim Student Association and the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood, as many know, is a group that wishes to re-establish a Caliphate where governance is through Shariah Law. I'm not sure it's ever been clear if the Caliphate is to only exist in the middle east as it has in the past or if due to the Quran's references to jihad if it's to continue to spread Islamic law and life. Regardless, I have no problems with the ICNA as I think most organizations for community outreach are generally legit. (For Mayo: The defensible ICNA wouldn't allow Women to gather with Men for the longest time. Until the 1990's, the ICNA wouldn't let women speak to Men because they had sexy voices. Not the same as those evil, indefensible Mormons and their past ties to racism... but a history of sexism is always defensible, right?) Since the ICNA wasn't the issue for me, I assumed it wasn't for the mob, either... so, let's look at the speakers.



The first keynote speaker, Siraj Wahhaj, was a member of the always defensible Nation of Islam (a group the SPLC calls a hate group) - led by such peaceful revolutionaries like Malcom X and Louis Farrakhan. In the Nation of Islam, Siraj, like the other leaders would teach members to hate white people. Siraj was the unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 who was a defense witness to Omar Abdul-Rahmanm, a man who was plotting to bomb tunnels, the UN and other areas of NYC. (He also issued a fatwa for Muslims to commit violence against America.) Furthermore, Siraj has been quoted saying, "In time, this so-called democracy will crumble, and there will be nothing, and the only thing that will remain will be Islam" and "If we were united and strong, we'd elect our own emir [leader] and give allegiance to him... Take my word, if 6-8 million Muslims unite in America, the country will come to us", although I can't trace these quotes back to their original sources since they're from back in the day. He also says the FBI and CIA are the real terrorists.

The other keynote speaker, Amir Abdul Malik (Amir Abdul Malik Ali), leads a branch of As-Sabiqun, which resolves to... "work with other communities (movements), whether they are local, national, or international, toward the end of harnessing the power of Muslims and their resources for the purpose of reestablishing the system of governance known as Khilafah, or the Caliphate, patterned after the leadership exemplified by Prophet Muhammad (saw)." and "...utilize all the tools of Islam to develop an analysis and plan of action to totally and completely obliterate the hold of jahiliyyah (roughly, non-Muslims) and enable Islam to take complete control of our lives, and ultimately, the lives of all human beings on Earth." (src) Explicitly stated, Amir Abdul Malik is a leading member of a group, highly looked upon by the ICNA, which aims to establish an Islamic State governed by Sharia Law. In addition to that, he also supports Hamas (a terrorist organization according to the USA) and Hezbollah, called for the destruction of Israel, blames the Jews for everything between 9/11 and the Danish cartoon, supported the idea of Jihad/struggle against infidels/non-believers on college campuses (although he said he wouldn't sit down with a zionists) and he loves screaming about some Majority Rule when discussing a two-state solution between Isreal and Palestine, saying there are more Muslims than Jews so, by default, they win. Furthermore, it's been said he supports children suicide bombers and martyrdom.

The protesters, or at least the ones in the clips, do seem unhinged without further investigation; however, upon examining the backgrounds and philosophies of the speakers, I can see why they would come out by the hundreds. These two keynote speakers have past railed against America and have advocated the dismantling of our way of life and governance for Shariah law and a Caliph state. They have militaristic, racist and anti-semitic pasts. In the past they've advocated violence against infidels and supported terrorists. (Defensible, yes?) Screaming, "Take your Shariah law" and speaking about the US Constitution seems acceptable for a protest, especially when they want to spread Islam and establish an Islamic state in the US. Also, chanting, "Go home", doesn't necessarily mean, "Go back to the middle east you sand niggers." It might mean, "Go home so you're not indoctrinated by their hate." Protest is perfectly fine and I support their right to assemble peacefully... just like I support the right for Amir Malik to hold hate rallies against Israel and Jews.

What I don't agree with is the need to bring up the fact that Muhammed married a six year old and fucked her when she was nine... that's just insulting to anyone, despite it being a historical part of the Muslim prophets past. Also, I don't think that small group toward the middle needed to verbally assult the person for holding a camera. Lastly, calling the Muslims 'terrorists' seems most disturbing of all... but, we don't know who was off camera, if the audio was from that clip of the video, etc. Were all the 'terrorist' screams directed at innocent families with their children... of was Wahhaj standing off screen talking to someone? Like I said at the start of this rant -- CAIR has an agenda.

PS: Doesn't Zaryi support protests against Israel and the Jews, anyways? Why is this so mindblowing?

Careful, the breadth of generalizations in this thread might collapse on itself and collapse spacetime into a black hole.



He waited three years? Damn.

Yeah, but after three years, you know she was begging for it. He was going to lose her if he didn't give it up.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

You spent so much time on this "research", only to turn everyone reasonable away when you start talking about Sharia law in the states.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

they want to establish it here.

it'll never happen, and haha at them for trying, but that shit is wacky.

Actually, I think I only lost you. I said the MB wants to re-establish a Caliphate and I wasn't sure if they defined that the Caliphate they wish to establish would be like the Caliphates of the day, where it occupied the middle east, or if the MB wants to take a more globalist approach via jihad. (If you would've quoted the next sentence, too, then you would've seen that... instead, you quote what you want and hope others take it out of context.)

Malik belongs to an organization that wants to establish a Caliphate with Shariah Law in the United States... and pretty much everywhere else, called As-Sabiqun. I know you don't want to be wrong so you're not going to click the link I provided to As-Sabiqun... but if you can swallow your pride for a moment, you might learn a thing or two.

Jahiliyyah is not a non-muslim. It is a concept of being ignorant of or willfully ignoring god's plan. It is the same as a christian praying for god to show them the way.

Dvergar /
Quisling

They have Sharia law in England and I'm pretty sure its an alternative to the legal system for non-criminal issues and its only applicable if both parties give consent. So long as it doesn't go against the laws of the parent country and it has the previous descriptions, I'd be completely ok with it, just like how there are rabbinical courts for Orthodox Jews.

The brownskins aren't going to take over your country and institute some sort of Afghanistan-esque regime. Its just flat-out not going to happen, so entertaining the idea as a serious thought is ridiculous.

But please, go ahead and keep on scrambling to defend these people.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

If neither you, nor, seemingly, anyone else, can place the quote, it was never spoken.

Reading the Wikipedia article about the organization, the only serious criticism comes from Zionist journalists; there's no mainstream secular opposition to these people. Arguing they are illegitimate because of their views on women is no more logical than arguing against the Mormons or Protestants' right to do as they please despite their even less rational and more destructive philosophical views.

Drawing a connection between the Muslim Brotherhood and modern-day Arab terrorists is a fallacy because they have no historical, organizational, or political connection. You might as well draw a connection between Brigham Young and Moses/Jesus or Virgil/Dante and Homer - seeking to capitalize on a historical legacy doesn't automatically mean the relationship is reciprocal.

The Muslim Brotherhood, unlike modern Arab terrorists, had no agenda outside the American political system and the civil rights movement. You say this person associated with them 40 years ago. Well, a lot of people who are today part of mainstream society did, and they did it because they believed the Muslim Brotherhood's approach was their best bet for winning civil rights. Of course, that was 40 years ago and not comparable to the nature of the obsolete organization today. It's the same for the IRA - obsolete revolutionary organizations that refuse to disband once their objectives have been achieved will always slide further into extremism to maintain their integrity as their less-than-insane members reintegrate into mainstream society.

In conclusion, the accusation raised by this thread - do these people support terrorism or domestic Islamic revolution? - has not been corroborated by any evidence. Show the evidence or gtfo.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

that was found by searching google for two words. searching for aestu + "or gtfo" results in much more amusement.

Lobster dog has been my lock screen image for a good week or two now. All about the dog fort comics

two dogs might not ever hang out until they meet one day in the park.

then they both end up having fleas.

You're right. They do have Shariah law in England and it is kinda an alternative to the legal system for small cases... but, I believe there should be one law of the land and all persons within that land should have to follow it. There shouldn't be any exclusions, in any circumstance, based on race, religion, gender, etc. All people should follow the same due process. Since you bring up groups like the Beth Din in America -- I disagree with that, as well. In America, we should not have multiple systems of law that are specific to people of a certain religion... especially when the law in that secondary court handles State affairs like divorce. The issue isn't wholly the want to establish Shariah law in America... it's the want to establish a Caliphate in America. Under a Caliphate, the US Constitution (and all out freedoms as we know it) would not matter as Shariah Law would be the new Constitution.

I'm not worried about the brownskins taking over my country because, as you said, it's not going to happen... but I'm also not going to hate on people for protesting the brownskins that want to take over my county. You, on the other hand, are hating on the protesters because the CAIR video said they were members of the Tea Party or Right Wing... and this judgement was passed before you even looked into why they were protesting. Again, this proves that your hate is no different than theirs.


As I stated earlier, my concern with the Muslim Brotherhood is their desire to re-establish a Caliphate. Other concerns? For starters, the Muslim Brotherhood is the largest Muslim group there is. Secondly, they have a lot of influence and power over groups like the ICNA and MSA, even going so far as to publicly support the ICNA and MSA, despite the ICNA and MSA having a history of allowing racists, homophobes and anti-Semites speak at their meetings. Thirdly, the Muslim Brotherhood has spawned terrorists like Ayman al-Zawahiri; it's unclear if his terror mindset was cultivated by the MB. Still, the MB has supported Hamas and Al Qaeda with financial and logistical means, according to a write-up at the Council of Foreign Relations. According to the CFR and al-Zawahiri's Wiki, as well as other sources I have in the office, there are connections between the Muslim Brotherhood and modern Islamic terrorists.


The Muslim Brotherhood has all sorts of Agendas outside and within the United States. I suspect you're confusing the Muslim Brotherhood with the Nation of Islam, which was a racist group that came to be during the civil rights era to which the Imams have a history with. Drawing the connection between the NoI and Wahhaj is integral since, in recent sermons, he's spoken of his affiliation with the NoI and said that he taught other blacks to hate white people.



"In time, this so-called democracy will crumble, and there will be nothing, and the only thing that will remain will be Islam" - One Imam Traces the Path Of Islam in Black America, Wall Street Journal, written by Paul Barrett. In the article, Mr. Barrett says the quote, which was said at the Imam's mosque in NYC, can be heard on the Imam's audio-tape sermon that you have to purchase. Since I'm not going to spend a dime on him, I'll just leave it at that.

""If we were united and strong, we'd elect our own emir [leader] and give allegiance to him. . . . [T]ake my word, if 6-8 million Muslims unite in America, the country will come to us" - The Danger Within: Militant Islam in America, Daniel Pipes. Daniel Pipes says the quote was spoken in 2002 to an audience in New Jersey.

"[resolves to] work with other communities (movements), whether they are local, national, or international, toward the end of harnessing the power of Muslims and their resources for the purpose of reestablishing the system of governance known as Khilafah, or the Caliphate, patterned after the leadership exemplified by Prophet Muhammad (saw)." and " [Resolves to] utilize all the tools of Islam to develop an analysis and plan of action to totally and completely obliterate the hold of jahiliyyah (roughly, non-Muslims) and enable Islam to take complete control of our lives, and ultimately, the lives of all human beings on Earth." - As-Sabiqun Website, Resolution of 1995

"jahiliyyah (roughly, non-Muslims)" - For clarity, Jahiliyyah does refer to the ignorance of God, as Dev pointed out. This more literal translation encompasses a greater number of people -- luke-warm Muslims and non-Muslim infidels, alike. Thanks for that, Dev.

"...he also supports Hamas (a terrorist organization according to the USA) and Hezbollah... supported the idea of Jihad/struggle against infidels/non-believers on college campuses (although he said he wouldn't sit down with a zionists)" - Malik Ali Answering Question About Jihad

More fun stuff on Amir Malik, documented by the Anti-Defamation League and at DTN.

Some stuff that DTN has to say about Wahhaj.

If you want more, just ask... I'll do what I can to provide.

http://garyfouse.blogspot.com/2011/03/m ... otest.html

Karen Lugo, protest organizer, responds saying they were protesting Wahhaj and Malik. They have an hour long video of the protest which I have not watched yet. (I'm not watching it until tomorrow) Deborah Pauly also has a challenge to CAIR to release the unedited speech she had because she feels it's being taken out of context. Additionally, they talk about the group that splintered off to harass the Muslims entering the dinner.