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I found this:

and this:

followed by this:

to be deliciously ironic.

And f u jub, I don't giggle... much...

Is it safe to assume the rest of this thread amounts to a whole lotta "no u" or is it worth reading past the second page?

A challenger has arrived!



Someone doesn't see the possibility of "ignored via forum settings", even when it's been said previously.

taking bets on how many more examples of people being evil and/or stupid people will post.


points if you can guess how many of those examples will be followed by what boils down to "no you"

I think Eturnal and Mayo are arguing about two different things. Eturnal supports the protest but not the protesters shown in the video (I hope..) while Mayo is addressing the blatant racism portrayed in the video and saying nothing of the reason for the rest of the protest.

Now, while there may have been a "real" protest and there may have been more to what the politicians were saying, the subject of the video was the handful of racists that were attacking those who were taking their families to dinner (you can even see some kids and teens walking in with their parents). Since you guys like quotes:

"MOHAMMAD (pbuh) IS A FAG" -Protester
"GO BACK HOME AND BEAT YOUR WIFE LIKE YOU DO EVERY NIGHT" -Another Protester
"GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY" -Still another protester
"WE DON'T WANT YOU IN OUR COUNTRY" -Guess who?

While these protesters may have disagreed with the speakers, the ones shown in the video did not make that clear. What they DID make clear was that they disliked Islam and felt superior (enough to break the law, anyway) to the families walking in. As Aestu stated, this IS breaking the law, and none of you should be supporting that and I don't think anyone here is. However, if you're going to be at each other's throats, how about arguing about the same thing?

Sometimes, Eturnal, it does feel like you hate Muslims because of what "they" did to "your" country. No, it's not because you support the right or any other ulterior motive you believe I may have; it is your rhetoric and posts that make out to be that way (and I could be 110% wrong). But I'm not sure I heard anything about the whole marrying a 6 year old and screwing her three years later in the video, yet you decided to throw that in there (even though you were saying there was no need for them to bring it up), which paints Islam in a poor light for those readers who may be less informed about the workings and history of the second biggest religion in the world. Is that even true? Where is that written?

And I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, a devout Muslim. In fact, not eating pork is as far as my family and I go. However, it is still hurtful to see these images and to have people on these boards even appear to defend the law-breakers even a little bit. Just a thought.

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I don't hate all Muslims. I hate the Muslims that wish to do harm to my country or our democratic republic... just like I'd hate anyone, regardless of religion, nationality or race, who wishes to do the same. It just happens that the two Imam's in the video are Muslim, they have supported terrorists, they do wish to change America and their anti-Israeli rhetoric isn't something I agree with. The CAIR video doesn't show what the protesters were yelling at... and since the video is clearly biased and doctored to paint the protesters in a horrible light, I think it's unfair to label the protesters racist by buying into CAIR's video without further investigation. For all we know, the target of the protest could've been walking into the building at the time some of those things were said.

One of the protesters said Muhammed was a pedophile. In the culture, what Muhammed did might not be pedophilia... but, the Hadith did talk about Muhammeds marriage to a young girl named Aisha when she was around six. He banged her out when she was nine. I think she get's most mention in the Sunni Hadith and not the Shia.

Yes, the imams could have been walking into the building while some of that was being said. The protesters yelling at the kids who walked in, that part is pretty clear. It's fair to protest if you don't like the speaker, but they turned it into "everyone going into that building is a terrorist".

Realistically the people going into that building were probably just supporting their center and a cause they believed in (the imam wasn't the cause or even from that area). It is entirely believable that the people going into that building were unaware of the imam's alleged past (nothing more american than throwing out the basis of our legal system, innocent until proven guilty), or that they were willing to see what he had to say and reserve judgment until then. You yourself claimed that you didn't know what he meant by some of his words, yet these people were doing exactly what an uninformed person should do, and you paint them as supporting terrorists. It is also possible that there were people sympathetic to radical violent islamic movements in attendence, or even future terrorists. Without any real proof of that, you can't paint all those in attendance with the same brush.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Almost 100% sure I heard one of them address the camera-wielder directly. So unless you think the Imam himself was toting the camera...

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What else?

Religion needs to die alone and unmourned. So does nationalism.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

read - it could have been anyone guise



read - it is EXPLICITLY clear who they are yelling at unless you are retarded



read: they broke the law but I'm going to defend them anyway because... ???



Pretty sure the main problem here is that everyone has wholeheartedly condemned their actions, regardless of any "agenda" CAIR might have (read: your paranoia) except for you. You use small quotes and subtle "shouldn't have done that" statements, which is very uncharacteristic of you. Instead, your main point in these posts has been in the defense of people who have done more harm to "your" country than the families they are yelling at, which was not the point of this thread at all. The whole point is what was being shown in the video - regardless of the reasons for the video itself - which is that people like that exist.

You also do exactly what you accuse mayo of doing, which is not admitting when you are clearly wrong. Just think about it - why am I directing you and not Cally?

Now, would you like me to throw you a life ring?

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What law was broken? Can we tell from a five-minute clip that a law was broken? There were police on scene. They didn't act against the protesters. For that reason alone, I'm going to assume the mass protest didn't break any laws.


CAIR releases a video against the protesters and misrepresents public speakers in the video in an attempt to make them look bad. This is horribly obvious -- even more so when you watch the actual protest and see the confusion on the speakers face when that splinter group is screaming at the top of their lungs or how CAIR explicitly states the public speakers were part of the protest shown. My paranoia isn't the reason CAIR didn't put the speakers names in the video and it isn't the reason they used clips of the real protest in hopes to vilify the protesters. The video made it look like the protest (as a whole) was a bunch of racists just showing up to yell at Muslims. The fact is the protest was organized to protest against Siraj Wahhaj and Amir Abdul Malik-Ali and to NOT yell at protesters - this was explicitly stated in the real protest which, due to my paranoia, that clip never made it into the CAIR video. (Watch the real protest link and you'll see what I'm referring to.) For that reason, I'm not going to wholly condemn a mass of people for the actions of a few in this situation; instead, I'm going to say I don't agree with what the few did and still support the masses right to protest. I think that's a pretty reasonable and fair approach. (I do find it curious how there hasn't been any condemnation against CAIR from the FUBU posters since CAIR calculated this video and released it with the intent to do harm to the Tea Party or the public officials image. Double standard, much?)


Uncharacteristic? The borderline-civility is uncharacteristic of you - I'm not going to hold it against you just as you shouldn't hold your poor reading comprehension (or plain lack of reading) against me. I've condemned the acts and the people in the video which I feel are wrong. I've refused to condemn the rest of the people because they are doing nothing wrong. If you glazed over that in my sea of posts then you have none other to fault than yourself.


The point of this thread, based on who made it, was to make a group of people look like racist Islamophobes... much like CAIR was trying to do. Obviously it's easier to just be force-fed some propaganda and nod your head rather than investigate the incident and make your own determination.


The point of the video isn't to show that people like that exist. If it was, CAIR wouldn't have used the elected officials since they were no part of that splinter protest and, instead, they would've focused on the few people making noise. The camera man could've moved closer to the protesters but instead he pans out so it looks like it's a sea of angry white people... rather than focusing on the guy with the Megaphone or just making the entire video about that small group in the parking lot. Additionally, if they wanted to prove hateful people exist then they would've told the viewers who was at the dinner and maybe showed clips of their past public appearances - hate comes from all sides and isn't bound by a specific race or religion, you know.


Am I clearly wrong? In which regards? Also, you're directing this at me because you think I hate all Muslims and I'm more vocal on this matter than she has been.

Kay, time to pick this one apart too I suppose.

- Hate speech is against the law. 'Nuff said. Fun fact: I learned this in elementary school. We can drum up a whole lot of reasons why they didn't act but they'd all be subjective and useless.

- I'm fine with you supporting the protest. Even I'd support a protest against people who take an extremist point of view.

- I'm not fine with you defending the splinter group, or even appearing as such, which you do. This leads to my belief (and perhaps of others on this board) that you hate Muslims.

- Your condemnation of the splinter group (the main point subject of the video, NOT the elected officials or the subtle "panning of the camera to show the sea of white people) is completely overshadowed by your support of the "real" protest (not the main point of the video or this thread). Just as it is easier to be "force fed," it is also easier to attribute the intentions of the real protesters to the intentions of the splinter group.

- I have read every one of your posts and have great reading comprehension. You, however, glazed over my post. HERE IS A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE IN CAPS AND IN YELLOW SO EVEN YOU CANNOT SOMEHOW SIMPLY IGNORE IT (NO I AM NOT YELLING): I SAID YOU DID NOT WHOLEHEARTEDLY CONDEMN THEIR ACTIONS BUT YOU CHOSE TO READ THAT/TURN IT INTO "YOU DID NOT WHOLLY CONDEMN THE PROTEST" WHICH IS NOT WHAT I SAID AT ALL NOR WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO. ALL I SAID WAS THAT YOU DID NOT BASH THE SPLINTER GROUP, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE NO TROUBLE BASHING ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU "DON'T AGREE WITH." This renders your biggest paragraph of your last post irrelevant, and kinda makes you look like a hypocrite since you are pretty much "panning the camera in order to further your agenda."

- My civility is due to the fact that, after much thought, I was wrong in simply believing all those who disagree with me are retards. Instead I try to see where another is coming from before I disregard their opinion. Not only will I learn more this way, but I might even avoid derailing otherwise wholesome conversations.

- I am not a supporter of CAIR or any other Muslim organization. Personally, I believe religious organizations are stupid and that religion should be an individual experience. So while their video may have made the protest as a whole look like a bunch of racists (something that is also wrong), I'm pretty sure not a single person on this board, myself included, have increased their support for CAIR nor decreased their support for protests against extremists based on this video. Therefore, any post referring to "CAIR's agenda" and "the real reason for the protest" is irrelevant since the mindblowing part is the splinter group and nothing more (hey, that's the title of this thread!!!!!!1111one). However, these posts can and should be included as this is a discussion, but they should not be used as evidence for either side being correct or incorrect in their actions.

-I believe that you are an intelligent person who doesn't like to take things at face-value, something that few people can say they do. However, you are also quick to generalize and bring in past issues to form your opinions which, once formed, are impossible to change. I have realized this about myself, and am trying to change it, and feel that I am doing a good job so far. Maybe you should follow suit?

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Oh and this is the real reason I am not bashing Cally:



Short, sweet, to the point. Now yours:



Paraphrasing, but you get the idea. Your don't agree with them, but you support their "right" to say it or something? I really don't get it and would like this clarified.

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I'm sure the resident law student can clear this up, but I'm pretty sure Hate Speech isn't against the law unless it's used to incite violence or other criminal activity. That is protected by the first amendment of the US Constitution and laws to prohibit free speech would be violating that. Since the protesters weren't being violent or even inciting violence there was no foul play. Sure, some of the things that were said may have been in bad taste, but I'm not sure they were illegal. Maybe elementary school should spend more time teaching the constitution and less time on how to not hurt peoples poor widdle feewings.


I explicitly said I don't agree with the things some of the people said in my first post. Am I supposed to hate the people for protesting... or should I hate the way they choose to protest?


The reason I made an issue of the real protest, which is central to my point, is because this video (the topic of this thread) is being used to misrepresent those present at the real protest. Regardless, I've already said what I had to say about the protesters specific actions. What more do you want? Do you want me to mail them pipe bombs or some shit for protesting in a legal, yet classless, way?


Why would I have bashed the splinter group? Do you want me to call them racists even though I don't know if they are? Do you want me to say they hate all Muslims even though we don't know that to be the truth? Can't I just talk about the ass-hat who were screaming about Muhammed being a pedophile or about the chick who wanted to rip the camera out of the non-Imam's hands? I think it makes more sense, in this situation, to single out the offenders based on their actions rather than make a generalization about the group... because making a generalization about the group would be what CAIR wants.


Good call.


Just like Amir Abdul Malik-Ali has a right to hold an anti-Israeli protest, the people in the video have the right to protest, as well. I support the fact that both Malik and the protesters in the video are exercising that right. I don't support the way some of the protesters acted in the video. I don't support the Imams hate-filled messages. I don't support CAIR and their attempt to make the protest appear like some hate-Muslim rally. I thought that has been made crystal clear.


What generalizations did I make? Did I say that whole group was mindblowing? Did I say they were racists? I singled out the individuals I didn't agree with (on all sides, from Cair, to the Speakers to the protesters) and said, other than that, there was nothing wrong with the video. I think that's pretty damn specific, if you ask me.

Anyways, good luck on your quest to change. Since having opinions and convictions made of playdoh is a disgusting quality, I'm going to stay the way I am.

Fairly sure hate speech is considered fundamentally violent / instigatory given the nature of our society.



Cutting to the crux. Prove it.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.