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Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:12 pm

I'd also like to point out something else, which is that the BP Gulf disaster was initially talked down by all parties. And now we know that it was many times bigger - many dozens of times bigger - than initially stated.

If back when that occured, I or someone else said it like it was - that they were understating the size of the disaster to save face - would the same reaction have been warranted, "assumptions", "conspiracy theory", etc?

Joklem · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:12 pm

The place smells much nicer now.

*sniff sniff*

Smells like bloody steak on a plate as opposed to garbage.

Laelia · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:17 pm

Aestu wrote:

Good shot.

Thanks.

Quote:

Note I simply walked way - I didn't feel compelled to ignore you because I couldn't handle what was being said, I simply stopped arguing when I realized the discussion was futile.

People ignore you because you routinely make personal attacks instead of having a civil discussion (eg. most of this thread). It's irritating to read and it turns what could be an interesting debate into this kind of shitfest.

Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:19 pm

Laelia wrote:

People ignore you because you routinely make personal attacks instead of having a civil discussion (eg. most of this thread). It's irritating to read and it turns what could be an interesting debate into this kind of shitfest.

Although it's nice in principle to keep the person and the point separate, there's a certain dishonesty in doing so if the latter is driven by the former. People have a way of pleading their own cases while pretending it's just their objective opinion. Understanding how the man and his opinion interact lends a better understanding to both.

Jushiro · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:31 pm

Mns wrote:

I'm completely seeing this as God punishing the Japanese for anime.

This may or may not make me sad.

Laelia · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:32 pm

Aestu wrote:

Laelia wrote:

People ignore you because you routinely make personal attacks instead of having a civil discussion (eg. most of this thread). It's irritating to read and it turns what could be an interesting debate into this kind of shitfest.

Although it's nice in principle to keep the person and the point separate, there's a certain dishonesty in doing so if the latter is driven by the former. People have a way of pleading their own cases while pretending it's just their objective opinion. Understanding how the man and his opinion interact lends a better understanding to both.

Understanding where someone else is coming from is an important part of explaining your views clearly to someone who may not agree with you. However, it is possible to do so in a way that is not antagonistic. Even if you have a negative opinion of someone, attacks and insults in lieu of or even beside the most reasonable arguments will end up either shutting down or completely polarizing the discussion.

Joklem · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:33 pm

Jushiro wrote:

Mns wrote:

I'm completely seeing this as God punishing the Japanese for anime.

This may or may not make me sad.

You won't know until you open the box!

Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:37 pm

Laelia wrote:

Understanding where someone else is coming from is an important part of explaining your views clearly to someone who may not agree with you. However, it is possible to do so in a way that is not antagonistic. Even if you have a negative opinion of someone, attacks and insults in lieu of or even beside the most reasonable arguments will end up either shutting down or completely polarizing the discussion.

"Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil, do no evil" sounds cute as a piece of pedantry but it doesn't work in practice because people just use it to hold onto their stupid biases. See prior post to this effect.

Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:42 pm

Jushiro wrote:

Mns wrote:

I'm completely seeing this as God punishing the Japanese for anime.

This may or may not make me sad.

It's not a punishment, it's a blessing!

Watch unemployment go through the floor, and in 20 years, they'll be on top of the world again with their shiny new infrastructure.

Joklem · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:43 pm

Wow I decide to view one post. You can't make a single, simple connection with your feeble brain. It was an uncertainty principle (SHRODINGER'S CAT LOL) reference, a joke, you dense fucking dimwit.

You sir, are mentally ill. See a doctor ASAP.

And thanks for derailing the thread again and putting >>>>>AESTU<<<<< IN THE SPOTLIGHT. That's your only contribution to this forum. GTFO.

Laelia · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:46 pm

Aestu wrote:

Laelia wrote:

Understanding where someone else is coming from is an important part of explaining your views clearly to someone who may not agree with you. However, it is possible to do so in a way that is not antagonistic. Even if you have a negative opinion of someone, attacks and insults in lieu of or even beside the most reasonable arguments will end up either shutting down or completely polarizing the discussion.

"Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil, do no evil" sounds cute as a piece of pedantry but it doesn't work in practice because people just use it to hold onto their stupid biases. See prior post to this effect.

Doesn't work for what exactly? I think this thread clearly demonstrates that your current approach to rhetoric is rather lacking, and it certainly hasn't dissuaded anyone from holding whatever "stupid biases" you may think they have.

Joklem · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:48 pm

Laelia wrote:

Aestu wrote:

Laelia wrote:

Understanding where someone else is coming from is an important part of explaining your views clearly to someone who may not agree with you. However, it is possible to do so in a way that is not antagonistic. Even if you have a negative opinion of someone, attacks and insults in lieu of or even beside the most reasonable arguments will end up either shutting down or completely polarizing the discussion.

"Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil, do no evil" sounds cute as a piece of pedantry but it doesn't work in practice because people just use it to hold onto their stupid biases. See prior post to this effect.

Doesn't work for what exactly? I think this thread clearly demonstrates that your current approach to rhetoric is rather lacking, and it certainly hasn't dissuaded anyone from holding whatever "stupid biases" you may think they have.

The stupid bias of reasoning the incoming data before taking a viewpoint - even if it takes more than 24 hours.

My apologies for sharing it, people! (despite being thanked in PMs.)

Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:53 pm

Laelia wrote:

Doesn't work for what exactly?

For producing a meaningful discussion.

So far as this thread goes, my claims about the reactor situation and Joklem have been completely proven.

Joklem wrote:

The stupid bias of reasoning the incoming data before taking a viewpoint - even if it takes more than 24 hours.

This is a case of psychological inversion.

Laelia · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:56 pm

Aestu wrote:

Laelia wrote:

Doesn't work for what exactly?

For producing a meaningful discussion.

So far as this thread goes, my claims about the reactor situation and Joklem have been completely proven.

In your mind perhaps, but I don't think convincing yourself of the merits of your own position is the purpose of having a discussion.

Aestu · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:59 pm

Laelia wrote:

In your mind perhaps, but I don't think convincing yourself of the merits of your own position is the purpose of having a discussion.

People don't always know they've been convinced or say so. Getting to the heart of the matter is more useful than just having a lot of pithy posts where everyone just politely accepts each others' opinions like a Unitarian sabbath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agonism

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