Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

According to your FB status you got in a scuffle with some African Americans. Hope you're okay - what happened?

This got me thinking about African American culture...and really black poverty in general. It's sad that so many African Americans are still below the poverty line (something that IS partly caused by societal restrictions), many African American families are single parent households (fathers far too often skipping out on parenting duties), and so on.

However, sometimes I wonder about African American culture itself, and if there is a part of it that is self-perpetuating in its struggles (OMG AZELMA IS RACIST???? Hardly, hear me out.)

Bill Cosby caught a bunch of flak from the African American community when he called them out for various things:
1. The lack of parenting - IE daddy's skipping out
2. Ridiculous excesses - kids living in the projects struggling to make rent wearing $500 shoes. If you've ever lived in a city, this can be verified. If I go to the South Side of Chicago, I guarantee my wardrobe will be worth a lot less than many of the African Americans there.
3. Criminal Activity within the community - Black on black crime, specifically.
4. Lack of stress on education - you can grow up to be a baller or a rapper. Abominations like BET reinforce this (watch The Boondocks, a show produced by black people that rips BET and calls it what it is...absolute trash that is ruining the African American community).

http://www.gibbsmagazine.com/Bill%20Cos ... mments.htm

Of course Bill Cosby being critical...and in my opinion spot on, was criticized as "racist" by Jesse Jackson, the NAACP, and other black "leaders."

I like to cite other minority races that have had substantial obstacles yet aren't having the same type of cultural/socio-economic issues. I concede, black people did have hundreds of years of institutionalized slavery to deal with...so it's not exactly the same...but consider:

Chinese/Asian people - they were HATED in this country, but they came here and took all the shitty jobs working on the western railroads that nobody wanted. They created their chinatowns, had a commitment to scholastic achievement, and look what happened to Chinese-American culture. Ever read about the Japanese internment camps during WWII ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese-A ... internment )? Look at them in this country. Many other cultures have faced huge issues - yet aren't facing the same levels of poverty and crime as African-Americans. Why is this?

The Irish - the irish were HATED in this country. Despised by the WASP community (White anglo saxon protestant). They couldn't get jobs...their kids couldn't even go to protestant schools because they didn't want to read the King James version of the Bible. So what did they do? They made their own communities in places like Boston...it's what gave rise to Catholic schools in America, so the Irish kids could read their Bible and go to school etc.

Hispanics - consider the hispanic community. While still dealing with their own poverty/crime issues, a great many of them have "risen up" out of it. I worked at Wendy's in high school with hispanic people who worked 80-hour weeks. They held down jobs at multiple fast food restaurants, just to make enough money so they could send some of it back to Mexico (or wherever) and help support their families. Consider the strong hispanic communities in cities like Miami, Phoenix, etc.

Also, it's interesting that actual African people (not African-Americans), HATE african-americans in this country. They think they are lazy, entitled, etc. etc. My step mother taught in an inner-city school with a large Somalian population and they LOATHED the american black kids.

Conclusion: Clearly racism had a deep impact and indirectly (or directly) caused many of the challenges the African-American community faces today. However, we have black leaders serving in our government, black lawyers, doctors, etc. So clearly upward mobility is possible. I think to a certain extent, black impoverished culture has self-perpetuated some of these issues by not having strong family support systems (absent fathers), not stressing education or hard work (again, I'm speaking in regards to the whole, not individuals), and having a culture viewpoint of "the man is keeping me down" and an entitlement attitude at times (asking for "reparations" for slavery and "affirmative action" are two examples that come to mind). Thoughts?

Oh boy! This is the thread for me since everyone knows how much I hate brown people for no reasons and all...

But really, I think you and Bill Cosby are right and I'm guessing a lot of people share the same thoughts. Of course attention whores like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton disagree - if they agreed then there wouldn't be a spotlight for them to stand in. Until the black communities (and any other impoverished communities of any race, really) learn to pull their shit together and clean themselves up then they're going to always be a problem... but, it shouldn't be my problem or anyone elses, really. They need to do it on their own and it's entirely possible! Like you said there are a lot of blacks who have been successful... and they most likely had the same history -- black ancestors being enslaved by black ancestors and being sold to white AND black slave owners. (My point is a history of enslaved ancestors isn't a free pass to act a foo', nigga.) It's so much easier to cry about how the white man is holdin' dem downs than to make a change in their lives or their communities. If that's the case, fuck 'em.

inb4 racist/xenophobe/bigot/lynchmob/kkk/etc

Bill Cosby has been saying this sort of thing for many decades; he's right, but what he says will make little difference.

Something he didn't mention, that I have come to believe is a major driving force in black culture's failings, is how black people treat their children.

If a black child cries out or is loud or demanding or tries to get out of its carriage or whatnot, black mothers will often slap it down, restrain it, tell it to shut up, threaten to hit or spank it.

I think this is one characteristic of a culture characterized by a profound lack of self-respect and a sense of injustice - that what drives authority is brute force, and not any sort of moral right. Their children learn to submit only to force, to have deep seated anger, and to not have initiative in dealing with the world. Of course this is also driven by the fact that many black people simply don't take the responsibility of parenting seriously. They don't use contraceptives, and if they get pregnant, they don't take raising the kid seriously, either. I believe this is the reflection of the bias and social injustice that black people continue to meet with today, despite legal equality: they see a world in which rules and laws are superficial, a sham, and they project that nihilistic world view forward onto their children.

It begs a contrast to Jewish culture. Jewish parents, possibly more so than any other culture, profoundly love their children and take parenthood VERY seriously; they don't take a "wing it" approach. Jewish parents encourage their children to be ambitious, to explore their interests. This begins very early on: at the age black mothers are spanking and threatening their toddlers, Jewish parents are already treating them like they're the most precious thing in the world, not just coddling them, but encouraging them to go out and discover. It's not even a question of education or motherly love, there's a more fundamental difference in attitude towards life itself.

A major factor in why Jewish people tend to be successful and prevail against the odds is that they have traditionally taken a "winner" attitude towards life - there is always a way, getting what one wants is inevitable, it's just a question of doing what it takes to get to that point. Jewish people are audacious by nature, and that quality is bred into them from early childhood.

I have come to believe that a major factor in perpetuating the poverty and degeneration of the black community is that black people do not have that sort of internal drive because of how they raise their children.

It makes me feel very sad when I see black mothers mistreat their children.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

GOD DAMN MORGAN FREEMAN WHY DO I LOVE YOU SO MUCH....

Also incredibly valid point, and after mentioning this to my roommate he called me a racist because (not his words but implied meaning) "you don't have black friends" and "you see people as their skin color first and then as a person"

We seriously had a discussion spanning an hour because i said "that one black guy", which followed into "why do you just not say that person"....Swear to god i'm so confused these days as to what is racist and what isn't...

Since when is it racist to when your trying to distinct one person from a group of people to call out their skin color first...i'm looking at their face, not their waistline, their shoes or anything else. Seems these days you're either a racist, weightist, agist, or something else along those lines because people just wanna start shit.

Also <3 Luci hope your arms feel better.
And i didn't realize Eternal didn't like da black folk, but then again you're not exactly spouting off racist slurs, and i suppose i'm kinda a bit prejudice because i don't care for the class of douchebags w/ v-necks or the part of the black community that thinks being gangster is cool.

Engi-nerd

Yea, it was news to me, too.

It's ok Eturnal, the first step is admitting you have a problem, we're here for you

I don't think anyone would argue that some of the elements of urban black culture in America are destructive, but it isn't easy for people to just pull themselves out of that culture. There are a lot of forces that tend to keep people stuck in poverty - high rates of single parenting, bad schools, crime, a lack of social mobility in general. This isn't to give them an excuse, but a lot of people (of all cultures) don't have the grit to do what it takes to move up the social ladder. It's far easier for a middle class person to stay middle class than for a poor person to move themselves up. If enough people in that culture make an effort to improve the culture will progress, but transforming a culture is a slow and difficult process.

Laelia Komi Anomalocaris

No one ever got anywhere by blaming everyone else for their problems.

oops

In my high school before first bell, there was this hallway where all the black kids hung out. There would just be a line of them on the walls of either side and as any other black kid walked by they'd throw thier handout and do that handpull/hug thing and then that kid would also be on the wall. It would just slowly build up like cholesterol till it was almost impossible to get through.

Anyways, one day, and I remember this vividly because I couldn't believe it, a black girl was walking by and one of the black guys grabber her by her hair and drug her backwards (she was laughing about it at the time "Oh Deandre, you so funny") into the bathroom and pretty sure raped her. It was like looking at a caveman or at least what has been displayed as cavemen behavior.


On topic:
I think the problem with black culture if and when there is one (there's not always a problem) is people being unable to escape it. It doesn't even matter where you're from, the ghetto, a nice neighborhood, w/e. It's the other black people who spread black culture beyond the reach of the ghetto or where eve rit originates from. I knew a goofy black kid, good friend of mine, name was Cisaro but we always just called him Sunshine. Anyways, he was as goofy as any white kid but slowly over time he was hanging out with more and more black kids and hanging out on that wall. He slowly changed into one of them, you could still see the goofy in him but now it came with "$500" shoes and clothes with tags on them so he could return them later (perhaps that's why black people always got pissed when you got dirt on their shoes, they were out $500 for shoeslol).

I saw this same thing happen with many black kids and possibly just kids in general. They'd rather fit in than be themselves. I suppose part of the blame could be on BET for glamourising that lifesty.

everytime i see these threads i wonder if any of the people who make them have ever lived in a ghetto.

i get that the majority of the people there are black, but nobody ever seems to mention every other person living in these places, who do the same shit and act the same way. everytime you hear the "I WUZ BORN 2 DIS LYFE ITZ HARD 2 GET OUT" it isn't always some half assed excuse.

Is 'African American' still considered politically correct? Why?

Druid: Meowth
« Steam »« Xfire »
Glorious Death Metal Music

I remember one time Todd Trowery and some of the other guys thought it would be funny to take the "cracka" to the run-down dive BBQ/Soul Food shack out on the back roads. I don't think they were expecting, "HOLY SHIT, MOM USED TO MAKE THAT!" I got one of everything. They were like, "WTF?"

"It's not Black Food, guys, it's Poor Food, and there's a lot of poor white people."

After a while, the old lady that cooked all the food would get pissed at them for not bringing me.

You'd also be surprised how many black people look down their nose at that ghetto-ass shit. It's not too different from the way most of you make fun of southerners and people in trailer parks.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Disclaimer - I never lived in a ghetto, per-se. But I lived in a shitty white trash part of town, that was just across the train tracks from a ghetto in Philly (basically, my single mother made sure we lived in the nicer school district, but it was the crappiest area to live in that district. I witnessed a couple gang brawls from inside my apartment.

I don't think "I WUZ BORN DIS WAY, ITZ HARD TO GET OUT" is an excuse everyone uses - and there are certainly challenges growing up in such a neighborhood. That being said, it IS possible to get out. If parents stress education - if kids don't drop out of school in 8th grade to sell rock or join a gang...they can get out. The problem is, I think black culture seems to stress all the wrong ways to success:

1. Baller - be sweet at basketball or football and you can get out
2. Rapper/Entertainer
3. Thug (IE: Drug dealer, pimp, or a "soldier" for a dealer and/or pimp)
4. Education/hard work

I think 4 isn't emphasized nearly enough because there's a defeatist attitude that it's too hard, or that if you do that you're not being black enough...or acting white. I'd like to point out something this former NBA basketball player Jalen Rose said. He was from a poor, single parent household in Detroit who went to Michigan on an athletic scholarship and later the NBA. He was talking about the black basketball players who are recruited to Duke

http://newsone.com/entertainment/sports ... community/



By Uncle Tom's he means - black players who achieved scholastically, and had two parent households, hard working, educated parents.

Grant Hill (who went to Duke and never lost to Jalen Rose's thuggish Michigan team) said this in response in the New York times:

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0 ... alen-rose/



This is the problem with black culture. You are somehow "less black" or "less cool" or whatever, if you are educated, work hard, and so on.

Ironically Grant Hill had a considerably better NBA career, stayed at Duke for all 4 years and received his diploma. While Jalen Rose bolted for the NBA two years early, and is no longer playing and has never won anything of significance.

Double post.