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I've seen articles talk about this, but I don't really buy it. There are so many facets and shades to both liberal and conservative that you can't generalize like this. The college I went to certainly had a number of liberals, but there was a pretty sizable conservative presence there as well. Even during my time as a social work major there were a lot of conservatives in the department.

Dvergar /
Quisling

To think that those two groups are so cut and dry as that picture(OBVIOUS bias aside) is laughable.

Not saying it is cut and dry, but in my experience the majority of both groups adhered to the traits depicted in the image.

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When I see things that are happening in Republican States (Maine's labor mural, Arizona's immigrant laws, Ohio and Wisconsin's union busting, Wisconsin's tax cuts to businesses, only to have the poor and the old pick up the slack, etc), its really, really, really hard to not start drawing conclusions.

This isn't to say that everyone on the right is like that, but with the Tea Party garnering favor in the RNC and watching moderate republicans like Castle getting voted out of office, its an uphill battle to not argue that a large portion of the party are a bunch of racist nutjobs.

In South Dakota alone, they're trying to make the murder of an abortion doctor a "justifiable homicide".

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
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No, I'm saying that they are actually aligned with most of the rest of the country, but the rest of the country doesn't listen to them enough to know it because they're too busy calling them names.





Case in point. Even typically republican-leaning constituencies (police and firemen) are starting to rebel against the republicans in these cases. What they're doing isn't conservative or liberal, it's corporatist. It's busting unions to balance a budget deficit largely created by giving tax cuts to large corporations.

And in these cases, people who generally consider themselves conservative are finding themselves aligned with people who generally consider themselves liberal because those divisions are not applicable to what is actually happening.

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face

...I thought it would be at least three more posts before the bus stopped on the corner of Exaggeration and Hyperbole.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

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Wouldn't someone shooting an abortion doctor in the face right before an abortion procedure be the perfect definition of this law? I can't think of any legitimate application for this law, unless there's people running around punching pregnant women in the stomach in South Dakota.

RETIRED.
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[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

Yeah, that is pretty much the explicit purpose of that bill.

And even if you think it isn't, it's still a legitimate application of the suggested law, so it would at the very least be an unintended consequence.

But I highly doubt this just happened to be suggested for any other reason.

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face

Can I ever start a thread without someone mentioning a bus in it?

I think we'd have to check with the learned Mr. Tuhl, but I was under the impression that there was something in the news recently about someone being charged with manslaughter because their assault caused a woman to miscarry. That's also overlooking your inability to recognize important identifiers in a story like the phrase "in theory," especially in the context of the first update which was added in the relevant portion of the page wherein the legislator that brought forth the legislation states that, ""If you look at the code, these codes are dealing with illegal acts. Now, abortion is a legal act. So this has got nothing to do with abortion." I understand the pro-choice movement's clamoring over this, though, because any act or law that changes the status of a fetus as a non-entity and provides any sort of legal protections does endangers abortion rights.

For the record, while I don't appreciate how we got to the status-quo concerning abortion (it was something should have been decided legislatively and not judicially), I think the status-quo is good. Abortion is fucking terrible, but in a lot of cases it's the least of all possible evils.

The abortion thing wasn't nearly as funny to me as the "breaking the unions" bit over a state wanting to restrict collective-bargaining rights to wage negotiations and making the unions collect their own dues.



The universe is fucking with you.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

It wasn't purposed in order to legally kill abortion doctors (though you'd have to be an idiot to think that wouldn't happen if the bill in it's proposed state was passed). It was intended to give more rights to the fetus. The bill's sponsor wants to do away with abortion (despite the majority of voters in his state clearly disagreeing), and so by giving a fetus more and more legal standing, more and more protections, it is hoped that one of two things will happen: People come around to seeing a fetus as a baby and ban abortion, or continue to pile legal rights onto the fetus until abortion is in a sort of quasi-legal status of conflicting laws (and hope to get it struck down).

Really though, the single-minded stupidity is more telling than the bill per se. I can't fault someone for trying to end abortion (though you need to obey the people's wishes and stop this end-run bullshit). This bill would have allowed someone to take their pregnant relative to a clinic offering abortions and after the legally mandated guilt-fest schedule an appointment. They could then legally kill the doctor, regardless of whether the woman wanted to have the abortion or not.

As important as it is to point out the stupidity of this bill, it's also important to note that it's been shelved for now.

Edit:

Some states do punish people for the death of a fetus. The original bill did not differentiate between legal and illegal actions, and the sponsor later agreed to consider adding language to make it clear that the bill only applied to illegal actions. As far as I've been able to tell, the changes never took place before the bill was yanked, but it seems like everything happened pretty fast.

"In theory" is a lot less innocent when the theory is going to be tested by killing a doctor and seeing if the courts lets you get away with it or not.

Dvergar /
Quisling

So killing someone infrining upon the right to life of a fetus being grown by a woman who WANTS the kid is good.

And killing someone who is a doctor and is performing a legal act of aborting a fetus being grown by a woman who DOES NOT want the kid is bad.

I am ok with this bill if it goes in the way I just stated. Unfortunately, the people getting paid to sort that shit out aren't doing it well enough apparently.

I feel like laws should be a lot simpler than they are, at least in this case when it really should be cut and dry.


EDIT what was the issue with arizona laws and immigration that someone had? i thought illegal immigrants were illegal.

"conservatives" fooled by Bush, "liberals" fooled by Obama. Seems things as they have been for the last 8 or so decades.



"60% of U.S. Military Deaths in Afghanistan Have Occurred Since Obama Was Inaugurated in 2009"

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/60-us-m ... tan-have-o

I'm no Obama pumper but I feel like that's a misleading stat. Obama specifically said he was going to focus more on Afghanistan (you know, the country that has the people who actually attacked the US), instead of Iraq. Logically, focusing troop presence more heavily on that country would cause more deaths to have happened there while he's in office. Also, hasn't he been reducing the troop presence in Iraq throughout his term?

I would be more interested to see the total US Military Deaths (across all conflicts) during the first 3 years of Bush's second term versus Obama's first 3 years, if we're trying to do a comparison.


In any case, they both are sending young men and women out to die for oil.

That "kill abortion doctors" bill I'm fairly certain never made it to a vote because everyone realized exactly what it meant.

Not that it would have gotten anywhere, because it's unconstitutional.

I think it's a little silly that abortion is so vilified when the only people who really end up getting them are those who were lucky enough to live near clinics (very, very few poor people) or those with the means to travel and take days off work to get the procedure done (middle-class/rich people). But that's not the point of this thread, I guess.

The issue with the Arizona immigration law isn't so much the crackdown on illegal immigrants (because that's acceptable and legal - if stupidly shortsighted - behavior), but more that authorities can ask you for ID without probable cause if they suspect you're illegal. It's an equal protection problem, because inevitably no white guy will ever be asked for proof of citizenship.

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