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Dvergar · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 6:38 am

Jubbergun wrote:

I don't think I need to hear any shit about that on a board where a majority of the people thought Sarah Palin actually spoke the line about being able to see Alaska from her house when it really originated with Tina Fey on SNL.

All of one person thought that, but even if what you said were true, being stupid isn't excused by the stupidity of others.

Quote:

All I got from the Wiki article is what I'm getting here, which is fiscal conservatives and libertarians believe the CRA was an impetus for this, while others don't. A lot of those arguing that CRA wasn't a contributing factor were/are political appointees, and when you break down what those who made remarks of more substance than "I disagree" had to say, it looks like roughly 50%-60% of the failed residential mortgages were covered by CRA either in whole or in part and there isn't compelling information that would lead to any conclusions regarding CRA's culpability.

So the only people who thought the CRA caused it...were the people who opposed the CRA because of their views on government. How convenient.

Unfortunately, facts don't back that up. CRA banks were significantly less likely to make risky and high-apr loans and were significantly more likely to keep those loans. CRA also didn't cover the commercial loans, which had substantial failure rates. http://www.traigerlaw.com/publications/ ... 1-7-08.pdf

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 7:39 am

If that were true, the banks would have done what was required of them and no more. They would not have been zealous in selling these loans if they truly believed they could not profit.

thegodslayer · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 8:57 am

Laelia wrote:

that made the bailouts necessary

I fail to see the necessity

"The maximum cost of a $700 billion bailout would be $2,295 estimated cost per American (based on an estimate of 305 million Americans), or $4,635 per working American (based on an estimate of 151 million in the work force).[45] The bulk of this money would be spent to purchase mortgage backed securities, ultimately backed by American homeowners, which possibly could be sold later at a profit, by the government. Economist Michael Hudson predicts that the bailout would cause hyperinflation and dollar collapse."

So because the banks fucked up we owe more money. Shocker there, oh wait it gets better.

"There was concern that the current plan created a conflict of interest for Paulson. Paulson was a former CEO of Goldman Sachs, which stood to benefit from the bailout. Paulson has hired Goldman executives as advisors and Paulson’s former advisors have joined banks that were also to benefit from the bailout. Furthermore, the original proposal exempted Paulson from judicial oversight. Thus there was concern that former illegal activity by a financial institution or its executives might be hidden.[67][68][69]

The treasury staff member responsible for administering the bailout funds is Neel Kashkari, a former vice-president at Goldman Sachs.

In the Senate, Senator Judd Gregg (R-NH) was the leading Republican author of the TARP program while he had a multi-million dollar investment in the Bank of America."

This didn't throw up red flags for anyone?

Usdk · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 10:03 am

Dvergar wrote:

Usdk wrote:

There IS evidence, just no one has bothered to collect it. If anything, there should either be evidence FOR or evidence AGAINST it.

Look, either read up on the issues and educate yourself, or take what other people say for gospel truth. Not having any idea what you're talking about and at the same time calling other people out doesn't make a lot of sense.

Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_ ... ial_crisis That runs counter to what you believe, so instead of just waving it off, follow some of the 20 or so citations and read those as well.

Perhaps i wasn't clear when I said there should either be evidence FOR or AGAINST it. There's no way anything happened with that much money going on and the people in charge are like "man i dont know what happened!" It's all on the books(or at least should be) and should be very doable for some group of nerds to crunch all the numbers and be like "this is what happened." I wasn't saying which way it went, I'm saying the way it went shouldn't be some cloudy amorphous ghost.

Dvergar · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 10:29 am

Usdk wrote:

Perhaps i wasn't clear when I said there should either be evidence FOR or AGAINST it. There's no way anything happened with that much money going on and the people in charge are like "man i dont know what happened!" It's all on the books(or at least should be) and should be very doable for some group of nerds to crunch all the numbers and be like "this is what happened." I wasn't saying which way it went, I'm saying the way it went shouldn't be some cloudy amorphous ghost.

The way it went isn't some cloudy amorphous ghost. The numbers are out there, look at some of the links that have been posted. Despite that, there are ALWAYS people who refuse to accept hard numbers and will go on saying whatever shit they want to. There are still people claiming Obama isn't an American, the Holocaust never happened, and global warming is a lie. Science has been under assault from the right for 40 years, they're not gonna start believing it now.

thegodslayer · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 10:46 am

Dvergar wrote:

Usdk wrote:

Perhaps i wasn't clear when I said there should either be evidence FOR or AGAINST it. There's no way anything happened with that much money going on and the people in charge are like "man i dont know what happened!" It's all on the books(or at least should be) and should be very doable for some group of nerds to crunch all the numbers and be like "this is what happened." I wasn't saying which way it went, I'm saying the way it went shouldn't be some cloudy amorphous ghost.

The way it went isn't some cloudy amorphous ghost. The numbers are out there, look at some of the links that have been posted. Despite that, there are ALWAYS people who refuse to accept hard numbers and will go on saying whatever shit they want to. There are still people claiming Obama isn't an American, the Holocaust never happened, and global warming is a lie. Science has been under assault from the right for 40 years, they're not gonna start believing it now.

And then there are people who believe what they read because someone published it for some high official said it and accept it on that merit only. I love when people just attack someone because they don't believe what they do. Guess what half the shit people speculate on here(yes speculate because you don't really know) have no fucking clue and go based on what they are told. So your exact statement can be turned against you, how much research have you done on global warming yourself without reading some wikipedia article. Cite as many sites as you want it doesn't make you an expert it means you know how to read.

EDIT - No I don't think global warming is a lie, or the holocaust.

Dvergar · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 10:54 am

thegodslayer wrote:

And then there are people who believe what they read because someone published it for some high official said it and accept it on that merit only. I love when people just attack someone because they don't believe what they do. Guess what half the shit people speculate on here(yes speculate because you don't really know) have no fucking clue and go based on what they are told. So your exact statement can be turned against you, how much research have you done on global warming yourself without reading some wikipedia article. Cite as many sites as you want it doesn't make you an expert it means you know how to read.

I haven't seen my own heart, I guess it's just magic that causes this rhythmic thumping.

Eturnalshift · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 11:59 am

Dvergar wrote:

thegodslayer wrote:

And then there are people who believe what they read because someone published it for some high official said it and accept it on that merit only. I love when people just attack someone because they don't believe what they do. Guess what half the shit people speculate on here(yes speculate because you don't really know) have no fucking clue and go based on what they are told. So your exact statement can be turned against you, how much research have you done on global warming yourself without reading some wikipedia article. Cite as many sites as you want it doesn't make you an expert it means you know how to read.

I haven't seen my own heart, I guess it's just magic that causes this rhythmic thumping.

Nice statement. Aren't you one of the many around here that vehemently oppose the idea of a God and Intelligent Design? (I might be wrong; if so, disregard.)

Dvergar · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 12:01 pm

Eturnalshift wrote:

Nice statement. Aren't you one of the many around here that vehemently oppose the idea of a God and Intelligent Design? (I might be wrong; if so, disregard.)

Are you suggesting that accepting that I have a heart and how it works is the same as accepting a God and Intelligent Design?

Eturnalshift · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 12:07 pm

Ack. Ya, I ttly misread what ya wrote. Carry on. -__-

Laelia · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 12:20 pm

Usdk wrote:

I have a hard time believing there's no evidence of that. I mean its ALL money transactions/interest rates. There IS evidence, just no one has bothered to collect it. If anything, there should either be evidence FOR or evidence AGAINST it. There HAS to be evidence, its all recorded.

Maybe what I wrote was poorly phrased (as I said, I copied it verbatim from the other thread, so the context is slightly different). There is evidence that the CRA didn't cause the financial crisis, which I listed in the post - the great majority of subprime loans were not made under the CRA, loans under the CRA didn't have a higher default rate than other loans, and the CRA had nothing to do with commercial mortgages. As far as I know, there is no contrary evidence that the CRA did cause the crisis, just unsubstantiated speculation that loans to poor people must be risky.

thegodslayer · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 1:30 pm

Dvergar wrote:

thegodslayer wrote:

And then there are people who believe what they read because someone published it for some high official said it and accept it on that merit only. I love when people just attack someone because they don't believe what they do. Guess what half the shit people speculate on here(yes speculate because you don't really know) have no fucking clue and go based on what they are told. So your exact statement can be turned against you, how much research have you done on global warming yourself without reading some wikipedia article. Cite as many sites as you want it doesn't make you an expert it means you know how to read.

I haven't seen my own heart, I guess it's just magic that causes this rhythmic thumping.

Great comparison. Only one problem it is flawed. Your heart beating in your chest directly relates to you as you feel it. Or you can take your pulse.

Have you sat down with any of the administration when they "stopped" those leaked photos? Have you seen the concentration camps? (again just using your own examples against you) Have you seen any effects from the global warming, I mean considering we just had one of the worst winters? Or again are you just citing articles because you are far more intelligent than anyone here.

Have you been privy to the classified information that the admin has? Do you know their logic in releasing and not releasing data? Are you really so naive to think that showing pictures of Bin Laden might anger them more than US INVADING THEIR LAND? Or how about our military movements against them? Our helping strengthen the people they are fighting?

Don't pretend to know what you are talking about because you've read every/any article on a subject the fact of the matter is unless you are directly involved you have no way of knowing if what you are fed is truth or not. Yes that would include Obama's birth certificate, or the Bin Laden photo's. Maybe he's been dead and they knew but decided to withhold the info to help his re-election? Maybe they didn't? I don't know because I wasn't there when/if he died nor was I there when they found out.

Dvergar · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 2:02 pm

Quote:

Great comparison. Only one problem it is flawed. Your heart beating in your chest directly relates to you as you feel it. Or you can take your pulse.

Oh so I should go ask the person who's house was foreclosed. They have first hand knowledge, they should know empirically what caused the bubble and collapse. After all, taking my pulse doesn't mean I have a heart, I've never seen blood flow from my heart through my veins. Maybe I just have worms under my skin, I haven't specifically seen my veins.

This argument is moronic. If you want to attack sources, attack sources. If you need to stoop to "well man it's like, how do you really know anything man, like, maybe the universe is just one big banana, man" then you clearly don't have anything of worth to add.

There's nothing wrong with telling someone to educate themselves when they clearly haven't done one iota of research, so maybe you should put the tinfoil hat back on and go back to your cave.

Quote:

Have you seen any effects from the global warming, I mean considering we just had one of the worst winters?

I just wanted to point this out because it is an exceptional amount of dumb.

Jubbergun · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 2:30 pm

Dvergar wrote:

Quote:

Have you seen any effects from the global warming, I mean considering we just had one of the worst winters?

I just wanted to point this out because it is an exceptional amount of dumb.

No, what constitutes an incredible amount of dumb is not realizing that those who are always going about global warming will say that global warming is the cause of weather/climate events regardless of what the weather/climate event is. There's no consistency. If it's cold all winter and snows (shocker), it's because of global warming, but if it's warm, that's also because of global warming. Then when you ask why, if things are working the way these people seem to think, they can't make a solid prediction in one direction (hot or cold), they yell, "SCIENCE!!" the same way some people yell "God!" as if that magically explains why they have no idea what the fuck they're saying. Every society has some sort of doomsday/end-of-time mythology, our's is just seems a little more advanced than Ragnarok or Revelation.

Your Pal,
Jubber

Mns · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2011 2:44 pm

If you guys are going to sit here and talk about "IT ISN'T GLOBAL WARMING BECAUSE THE WINTERS ARE COLD. HERP." and just latch onto titles as opposed to arguing facts, the accepted term for what's going on is "climate change", not "global warming".

Not like this will change anything.

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